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02-28-2023, 11:12 AM#1
P300 Pitch Trim Normal Fail (PTRIM NML FAIL)
Been having a rash of issues of late that have me questioning aircraft ownership.
On my flight yesterday from Bolivia to Santiago I had a PTRIM NML FAIL. Ended up hand flying for around two hours to include the arrival and ILS into Santiago. Fortunately, the weather was decent, so it wasn't a big deal.
This is the second time in12 months that I've had the PTRIM NML FAIL. As with the last time, it clears on the ground. However, this time I also discovered the CMC CAS data also failed, no logging for the duration of the flight.
The PTRIM NML FAIL is one of the failures that is associated with the new "FCE RESET" switch which includes GND SPLR FAIL and SPOILER FAULT.
Has anyone had recurring PTRIM NML FAIL and if so, what was the root cause? -
03-12-2023, 06:53 PM #5
Ours failed at about 2400 hours. Was intermittent for like 90 days or so. Same thing, get on the ground and it would always reset. Did the CMC downloads and all that. Turned out, replaced the actuator. When looking in the gearbox of the old actuator, it was dry as dust.
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03-19-2023, 10:06 AM #11Mine is an intermittent failure that does seem correlated to cold soak (i.e. longer at higher altitudes increases the chance of it happening), but it also happened on a flight that only went to 2000. I haven't had it actually fail inside of RVSM, but that may also because I am intentionally not trying to "test" the system at those altitudes either.
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03-19-2023, 01:44 PM #12
The reason why I ask this is because I’ve seen others complain that this has happened to them at FL450
The minimum speed at colder temps AD that’s been out for a year now if exceeded can cause system malfunctions. The high risk zone for getting to slow and too cold would be especially predominant in the winter months on the climb between 410 to 450. -
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03-19-2023, 03:50 PM#13
I had the failure again today. We were at FL450 for three hours at -70C. The failure happened about 1.5 hours into the flight. Not too cool as we were over the middle of the Amazon.
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03-21-2023, 01:38 PM #16
Yep - according to AD that’s way too slow for the temperature. Need to be at least .67 Mach for temperatures that low and that high up. In our operations and to comply with AD, If we can’t keep the speed during the clim, we ask for a momentary level off to gain the speed. Best wishes
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03-21-2023, 03:03 PM#17
Good point, didn’t really consider the climb. However a typical climb of 1000 rpm would only subject the surface to “cold” for a short period of tim not sure if the cold could soak in that fast. I have a long flight (Username Protected)orrow, will keep the speed up.
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03-23-2023, 04:44 PM#18
On my most recent flight I paid attention to OAT and climbed at mach 0.6 until the temp reached ~-60C which was around FL400. I then climbed using VS at 500 fpm. By time the temp dropped to -66C the Mach was above 0.67 per the POH limitation. The cruise portion was at FL450 at -70C and Mach 0.72 and greater. However, at about the two-hour mark I once again got the Pitch Trim Normal Fail; 3rd flight in a row.
I sent in the FOQA files and the contract center confirmed that the pitch trim actuator position 1 and position 2 sensors are not in agreement. I get back in the states (Username Protected)orrow but have two long legs. -
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03-26-2023, 07:59 AM#20
No, just the pitch trim normal fail. The jet goes into scheduled maintenance next week. I will let you all know the final root cause when I have it.
Does anyone know if the two trim position sensors are independent of the trim actuator or are they integral? I haven't had time to study the wiring diagrams. -
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04-19-2023, 04:15 PM#22
I had the PTA replaced last week and flew a couple long legs out west. Submitted the FOQA data to the Contact Center and they reported that the position feedback was 5x5.
Root cause was a bad Pitch Trim Actuator.
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