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08-17-2021, 01:30 PM #1P100 STAR Speed Restrictions
Last week I received a reroute that would require me to use a STAR with a 280KIAS crossing restriction. I informed ATC that I wouldn't be able to comply and he seemed to get upset with me. He said his computer said that that STAR was acceptable for my type but he ultimately sent me back to my original STAR as filed which didn't have a 280 kt restriction.
In the past I have received reroutes to similar STARs with a 280 kt restriction and every time ATC just told me to fly it anyway as fast as I could and so I did.
Just wondering what others have experienced. Also, does anyone know what the tolerance is on those restrictions? +/- 10kts?, 5kts?
Thanks,
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08-17-2021, 02:41 PM #2(Username Protected):
I believe the tolerance is +/-10knots.
I have flown many speed limited STAR procedures in my former P100. I would always file the Jet-only STAR procedure if available. As soon as I was handed off to the center controller where the STAR begins, I would inform of the max forward speed that I would be able to maintain at the first speed limited intersection. If there were no close in-trail aircraft on the same STAR leg - Center would usually allow me to fly a slower speed. If there were close in-trail aircraft, they would sometimes change my clearance to a STAR over similar are nearby intersections. Sometimes this means you will start down earlier and be on an arrival with the turboprops.
I now fly a P300 and can handle the normal STAR arrival speed of 280, but occasionally I am asked to fly an uncharted speed of 300 or 320 knots. So - (although not as frequently) the P300 cannot handle every speed that Center wants.
I find that it takes much diligence to maintain arrival speeds along with multiple altitude changes on arrivals (I rarely get a nice constant descent as indicated on the STARs). The big boys with auto-throttles have an advantage in this envi(Username Protected)ment.
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08-17-2021, 02:55 PM #3FYI when I fly the P100 I use the attached chart to ballpark if I can meet the speed restrictions in level flight.
P100 Level Speeds.pdf -
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08-22-2021, 10:39 AM #4I think your issue is that you complained to the person who is earlier in the chain. He has no idea whether the approach controller needs you on the speeds. Usually they don't. I would have accepted the arrival at that point and negotiated the speeds later.
I file and fly arrivals with a 270kt or 280kt speed restriction on them all the time. Controllers clearly prefer you to be on the arrival even if you can't hit all the speeds, just advise the controller where the arrival begins as stated above. I also like to advise what my max speed would be to aid their planning. (See (Username Protected)'s chart).
Not sure if this is a waste of radio bandwidth but I find that blaming it on the temperature prevents any pushback that you might get.
"ABQ center, Phenom 524NC unable the speed at MAIER, my max speed due to temperature will be 250."
A bigger issue is airports with speed restrictions on departures. For example every departure at KMEM has a speed restriction of 250kt. Of course, that's totally impossible in a Phenom 100. For those, I'll still file them but I am sure to advise clearance delivery and departure so they can plan.
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