[Username Protected]

All,

Just curious who’s using single cue vs Dual Cue in the G3000 and why? Is dual cue more refined?

[Username Protected]

I’ve used both fairly extensively in multiple aircraft types from light aircraft to Pt. 121 airline flying. In my mind single cue is more intuitive, but dual cue is more precise. For a (Username Protected)-flown ILS I would take a dual cue every time. Unusual attitude recoveries were the least intuitive maneuver for a dual cue, but the adage “blue is up, brown is down” worked fine for me. Once I adapted to it I preferred dual cue.

[Username Protected]

Ok that’s sounds great! I will have to try out the dual cue with unusual attitudes and see how that goes.

[Username Protected]

I’ve used both fairly extensively in multiple aircraft types from light aircraft to Pt. 121 airline flying. In my mind single cue is more intuitive, but dual cue is more precise. For a (Username Protected)-flown ILS I would take a dual cue every time. Unusual attitude recoveries were the least intuitive maneuver for a dual cue, but the adage “blue is up, brown is down” worked fine for me. Once I adapted to it I preferred dual cue.

I agree on dual cue being more precise on a precision approach as well as it being more stable/dampened. When it’s turbulent, I find that the pitch bar doesn’t bounce around as much as the V bar.

[Username Protected]

That’s interesting about the turbulence

[Username Protected]

If all you've done is single-cue, stick with it. I switched to dual cue long before I flew the Phenom and fell in love with it. I was very pleased to see the G1000/3000 allows the option.

[Username Protected]

My aircraft manager and friend Cory is a Delta pilot, and strongly prefers the dual cue system, maintaining that it allows more precise flying. Most of my airline friends seem to feel the same way.

I prefer the single cue and am so used to it that I am reluctant to switch. It seems pretty precise its own self, I think.

[Username Protected]

I have flown both off and on for four decades, and I would suggest that you simply fly the one that you like. It has been my experience that they both work equally well through the various flight regimes we encounter. One might be a bit better on an ILS, the other a bit better in Turbulence, but overall, just pick the one you like. As far as saying dual cue is more precise - how much more precise do you need to be? 1/16th of a needle width as opposed to 1/8th? I flew both for Delta Air Lines as well, so I would say your Delta friend's opinion is purely that - opinion. I don't think that you would find any statistical data to support that. If you did then the single cue would go the way of "flying the beam" and ADF approaches.

I am curious though - you use a flight Director for flying unusual attitudes? I have never seen that done. I simply just fly the aircraft. I would find a FD while flying unusual attitudes to be a distraction more than a help.

[Username Protected]

Back in the day, I transitioned several ex military types into another airframe. Many would complain about the single cue FD. That airframe was simple to switch to the dual cue but I’d usually let the complain a bit before I showed them how to do that. Never really noticed them flying any better or worse. I think the law of primacy is in full effect here.

I did have a F18 driver give me the most complete explanation about the improved accuracy of the dual cue and he demonstrated why he preferred it and did it well. But at the end of the day, we aren’t dogfighting in the Phenom so whatever you like is what you like.

the thing that gets me is the folks that either:
A. Turn the thing off when doing a visual approach. I leave it on to taxi with! I’m spoiled!
B. Will leave it on but fly a visual approach and never set heading or altitude. Just totally disregarding its directions.

I’ve flown with both types and that one does puzzle me.

[Username Protected]

(Username Protected),

I like your thoughts.

IMHO, you should use au(Username Protected)ation until it no longer serves its purpose. Example - atc vectors you in tight on a clear and a million day and you've got the PAPI/VASI and the FD is not really coupled to anything. In that scenario I'll turn it off, get it out of my view, and fly the plane.

Admittedly, those instances are few, but that is one example of getting rid of the au(Username Protected)ation when it is giving you no good info, and can actually degrade your approach (because you're too busy trying to couple up to something when all you really need to do is fly the plane).

Just my $.02

[Username Protected]

I also see the younger pilots struggling to make the “magic” work all the while clipping into the airfield at an odd angle, high and fast. Then I simply reach over and click off the AP & FD and say “just fly the plane, sigh”

[Username Protected]

Regarding the comments about unusual attitudes…. By definition, if you’re there, something has happened that wasn’t planned, or wasn’t expected. It might be external (e.g., wake turbulence encounter), machine (whether an instrument malfunction—blocked pitot?, or loss of an engine, as examples), human-induced, and so on. Maybe the plane is exactly where it should be, but pilot perception became mis-aligned.

in any case, when something isn’t right, go back to basics and fly the plane. Don’t rely on trying to interpret the flight director — that may be what set up the U/A in the first place! As someone said, blue is up, brown is down….

[Username Protected]

What a great topic and one that I run across in training all the time. Everybody is correct but (Username Protected) got the big picture right and that is fly the one that is most comfortable for you. The dual cue (X pointer) is more precise becuase the graphic that is the X pointer tends to make your eyes focus in the center and that is where it should be for precision flying, When flying the single cue (command bars) the graphic of the flight director causes your eyes to focus on the nose of the aircraft which is not where it should be to fly precise. To fly the command bars precisely you need to crosscheck both wingtips back and forth which is a bit harder than simply focusing on the center of the dual cue. However the dual cue is only more precise if you are a pilot that is comfortable with it. I have found that the majority of pilots choose to fly the single cue (Command bars) and when I introduce the dual cue to them in training as another option, they have a hard time interpreting its signals and struggle to adapt. Usually making opposite corrections for deviations in the X pointer flight director. In those cases, the duel cue is definitely not more precise.
For most of the airline guys and military guys, we didn't have a choice and had to adapt to the dual cue from the start. Once comfortable with it, it is a wonderful flight director that is easier to fly and more precise. Again, only if you are used to it and can naturally interpret its presentation.

Thank you (Username Protected) for the bot(Username Protected) line ---- "Fly the one you like"

P.S. I second the motion of do not use flight directors for unusual attitude recoveries. Those should be done by "Recognize, Confirm, Recover"

[Username Protected]

I flew single cue Flight Directors for most of my flying, but switched to dual cue when I started to fly the Phenoms and Legacy.

Although the transition to dual cue was a bit counter-intuitive to me and it took me a few flights to get comfortable with it, I much prefer it now. I will agree with those who have said that it is a bit easier to be precise using dual cue

(Username Protected)
N685AS

[Username Protected]

Based on this thread, I tried using single cue and see the point on it being a bit more precise, but there's one big feature it doesn't support. I use pathways for departures, arrivals and approaches. In my opinion, pathways is great for situational awareness on any procedure and unfortunately single cue doesn't support using pathways.

[Username Protected]

You know what is great about this thread (and website, for that matter) is that people post good, insightful discussions without starting a flame war. (Username Protected), nice capability to point out! (Although I still like my single cue.) ;0)

[Username Protected]

What a great topic and one that I run across in training all the time. Everybody is correct but (Username Protected) got the big picture right and that is fly the one that is most comfortable for you. The dual cue (X pointer) is more precise becuase the graphic that is the X pointer tends to make your eyes focus in the center and that is where it should be for precision flying, When flying the single cue (command bars) the graphic of the flight director causes your eyes to focus on the nose of the aircraft which is not where it should be to fly precise. To fly the command bars precisely you need to crosscheck both wingtips back and forth which is a bit harder than simply focusing on the center of the dual cue. However the dual cue is only more precise if you are a pilot that is comfortable with it. I have found that the majority of pilots choose to fly the single cue (Command bars) and when I introduce the dual cue to them in training as another option, they have a hard time interpreting its signals and struggle to adapt. Usually making opposite corrections for deviations in the X pointer flight director. In those cases, the duel cue is definitely not more precise.
For most of the airline guys and military guys, we didn't have a choice and had to adapt to the dual cue from the start. Once comfortable with it, it is a wonderful flight director that is easier to fly and more precise. Again, only if you are used to it and can naturally interpret its presentation.

Thank you (Username Protected) for the bot(Username Protected) line ---- "Fly the one you like"

P.S. I second the motion of do not use flight directors for unusual attitude recoveries. Those should be done by "Recognize, Confirm, Recover"

That was a really great input (Username Protected). Are you one of the sim instructors or have you tried switching guys to the dual cue inflight? I also now like the dual cue. But as instructor in the plane I have new pilots to the 300 that are one or the other. Thus I am changing back and forth. But I get new pilots to try out the dual cue and after a few days they also seem to prefer it.

I discovered this the other day, that once you are centered up on heading and say climbing out on departure you can click the CWS button and adjust your climb rate to what you need at the moment. Not to start another discussion, but it was neat to see the climb bars of the flight director go right to the square.

[Username Protected]

Back in the day, I grew up with the only dual cues being left over on some old sperry equipped King Airs. The “new” technology was single due and it used improved computing power for a better and easier presentation to follow, so they said. I got used to dual cue when I had to fly it, and kinda liked it, but it always seemed like the new technology for 1972 was an advancement and the Collins equipment superior in most every way and therefore became quickly the most trusted. I have no idea who invented the single cue or when (interesting sidebar?), but as a flight director “dependent” pilot, I appreciate them!

My observation is that I see dual cues being used ever more rarely. No judgement whatsoever - use whatever makes you happy.