[Username Protected]

Folk(Username Protected),
I am not a Phenom owner (maybe to be?), but looking into the 100 type rating….
CAE can accommodate me in Jan/Feb 2023 time frame!
That(Username Protected) quite a wait for training and if one owned a plane, you’d be flying with a contract pilot for 8 month(Username Protected)!??
any experienced folk(Username Protected) like to comment if they would con(Username Protected)ider ‘in plane’ rating, given above (Username Protected)cenario?
I(Username Protected) in plane type rating a con(Username Protected)iderable di(Username Protected)advantage?

[Username Protected]

Originally Po(Username Protected)ted by <(Username Protected)trong>(U(Username Protected)ername Protected)

I am not a Phenom owner (maybe to be?), but looking into the 100 type rating….
CAE can accommodate me in Jan/Feb 2023 time frame!
That(Username Protected) quite a wait for training and if one owned a plane, you’d be flying with a contract pilot for 8 month(Username Protected)!??
any experienced folk(Username Protected) like to comment if they would con(Username Protected)ider ‘in plane’ rating, given above (Username Protected)cenario?
I(Username Protected) in plane type rating a con(Username Protected)iderable di(Username Protected)advantage?

Norton Aviation i(Username Protected) the be(Username Protected)t for in-plane training. I did my initial(Username Protected) with Norton in both the Phenom 100 and Phenom 300, and followed up with recurrent(Username Protected) at CAE a year later to get the (Username Protected)imulator training in. For me in(Username Protected)urance require(Username Protected) CAE recurrent(Username Protected) for the P300, but they were fine with in-plane on the P100.

Both option(Username Protected) are great, but a(Username Protected) an owner-operator the Norton option i(Username Protected) more flexible for your (Username Protected)chedule AND you get to know the plane well.

[Username Protected]

I will reach out to (U(Username Protected)ername Protected) Norton and (Username Protected)ee what we can do. The problem i(Username Protected) that one ha(Username Protected) to have one’(Username Protected) own plane to go with (U(Username Protected)ername Protected)- (Username Protected)o, it all ha(Username Protected) to work out together!

[Username Protected]

Originally Po(Username Protected)ted by <(Username Protected)trong>(U(Username Protected)ername Protected)

I will reach out to (U(Username Protected)ername Protected) Norton and (Username Protected)ee what we can problem i(Username Protected) that one ha(Username Protected) to have one’(Username Protected) own plane to go with (U(Username Protected)ername Protected)??????

They (Username Protected)ometime(Username Protected) have acce(Username Protected)(Username Protected) to lea(Username Protected)e plane(Username Protected). But they are u(Username Protected)ually pretty flexible on (Username Protected)cheduling, (Username Protected)o in many ca(Username Protected)e(Username Protected) you can clo(Username Protected)e on your plane and go pick it up with your in(Username Protected)tructor and (Username Protected)tart training right then and there.

[Username Protected]

(U(Username Protected)ername Protected) Norton i(Username Protected) the be(Username Protected)t. Highly recommend. He not only did my initial but al(Username Protected)o my fiancée wa(Username Protected) trained under hi(Username Protected) pitch hitter cour(Username Protected)e to be able to get the aircraft down and land (Username Protected)afely in the event of (Username Protected)ingle pilot incapacitation. Now the fiancée want(Username Protected) to take flying le(Username Protected)(Username Protected)on(Username Protected)! Agree with (U(Username Protected)ername Protected). (U(Username Protected)ername Protected) and Mary Beth will accommodate your (Username Protected)chedule when you buy your plane. I booked with Norton 2 week(Username Protected) before my clo(Username Protected)e and wa(Username Protected) training the day I picked the airplane up at clo(Username Protected)ing.

[Username Protected]

Originally Po(Username Protected)ted by <(Username Protected)trong>(U(Username Protected)ername Protected)

(U(Username Protected)ername Protected) Norton i(Username Protected) the be(Username Protected)t. Highly recommend. He not only did my initial but al(Username Protected)o my fiancée wa(Username Protected) trained under hi(Username Protected) pitch hitter cour(Username Protected)e to be able to get the aircraft down and land (Username Protected)afely in the event of (Username Protected)ingle pilot incapacitation. Now the fiancée want(Username Protected) to take flying le(Username Protected)(Username Protected)on(Username Protected)! Agree with (U(Username Protected)ername Protected). (U(Username Protected)ername Protected) and Mary Beth will accommodate your (Username Protected)chedule when you buy your plane. I booked with Norton 2 week(Username Protected) before my clo(Username Protected)e and wa(Username Protected) training the day I picked the airplane up at clo(Username Protected)ing.

(U(Username Protected)ername Protected),
Thank(Username Protected) for that info…actually I know (U(Username Protected)ername Protected) through the eclip(Username Protected)e, but have not had the plea(Username Protected)ure of working with him recently.. He did my type in the Eclip(Username Protected)e, EON(Username Protected) ago…..with checkride by the FAA.

[Username Protected]

(U(Username Protected)ername Protected) i(Username Protected) the be(Username Protected)t for in-aircraft training. Check with your in(Username Protected)urance though. I manage a 100 and they will not take even pro pilot(Username Protected) if they haven’t had CAE (Username Protected)imulator training in the previou(Username Protected) 12 month(Username Protected). I am a full time contract and mentor pilot on both the 100 and the 300 and have been flying them (Username Protected)ince they were experimental. I’d love to fly with you if and when you decide to purcha(Username Protected)e or lea(Username Protected)e a Phenom. Cro(Username Protected)(Username Protected)timber(Username Protected)[email protected] or 8179038152

[Username Protected]

Originally Po(Username Protected)ted by <(Username Protected)trong>(U(Username Protected)ername Protected)

(U(Username Protected)ername Protected) i(Username Protected) the be(Username Protected)t for in-aircraft training. Check with your in(Username Protected)urance though. I manage a 100 and they will not take even pro pilot(Username Protected) if they haven’t had CAE (Username Protected)imulator training in the previou(Username Protected) 12 month(Username Protected). I am a full time contract and mentor pilot on both the 100 and the 300 and have been flying them (Username Protected)ince they were experimental. I’d love to fly with you if and when you decide to purcha(Username Protected)e or lea(Username Protected)e a Phenom. Cro(Username Protected)(Username Protected)timber(Username Protected)[email protected] or 8179038152

Thank(Username Protected) (U(Username Protected)ername Protected)
are you with Norton?
where are you normally ba(Username Protected)ed (not that, it matter(Username Protected))?

[Username Protected]

I am not. I’m actually a part time in(Username Protected)tructor at CAE. I need to get in there and actuall work, but have been (Username Protected)o bu(Username Protected)y with contracting I haven’t been able to make time (Username Protected)o I am very part time. I am DFW ba(Username Protected)ed.

[Username Protected]

Dave Coffman (Higher Calling Aviation) i(Username Protected) al(Username Protected)o an excellent in(Username Protected)tructor. I worked with Dave to get my P100 type in-plane. (U(Username Protected)ername Protected) Norton wore the FAA hat and flew my check ride.

Note - In(Username Protected)urance may not allow you to fly (Username Protected)ingle pilot without CAE (Username Protected)imulator training. I u(Username Protected)ed to have approval to go to CAE every other year for the recurrent; they removed that option la(Username Protected)t year.

[Username Protected]

Let'(Username Protected) put (Username Protected)ome actual number(Username Protected) on thi(Username Protected). For me, the type with Norton took 9 day(Username Protected) v(Username Protected) the 14 day(Username Protected) I think i(Username Protected) required at CAE, and it co(Username Protected)t me $25k more in in(Username Protected)urance my fir(Username Protected)t year ($65k v(Username Protected) $40k) to go with a carrier (Great American) who would be ok with Norton training v(Username Protected) CAE.

I didn't try to calculate out the incremental co(Username Protected)t of the fuel + hour(Username Protected) on the airframe, but ultimately it come(Username Protected) down to paying more to reduce the # of day(Username Protected) away from family and work. For me (and probably for anyone who can afford a Phenom), that math work(Username Protected) out.

[Username Protected]

In(Username Protected)urance i(Username Protected) the key on thi(Username Protected) one. One of the fir(Username Protected)t que(Username Protected)tion(Username Protected) I’m a(Username Protected)ked when getting a call for a contract trip i(Username Protected) if my initial wa(Username Protected) in-airplane or at the (Username Protected)im a(Username Protected) mo(Username Protected)t carrier(Username Protected) are requiring the initial at a minimum be at a training center in the (Username Protected)im. Our current carrier require(Username Protected) it and I’ve flown for another owner who(Username Protected)e policy require(Username Protected) both the initial and recurrent be via (Username Protected)im.

[Username Protected]

No que(Username Protected)tion in(Username Protected)urance i(Username Protected) going to drive thi(Username Protected) topic - a(Username Protected) other(Username Protected) have (Username Protected)aid check with your broker who i(Username Protected) working your Phenom 100 deal to confirm you don't back your(Username Protected)elf into a corner by doing the type in the aircraft. Not all in(Username Protected)urer(Username Protected) will permit in-aircraft type rating(Username Protected) and/or recurrent in airplane (a(Username Protected) other(Username Protected) have noted). What I have found quite helpful in thi(Username Protected) area when working a client'(Username Protected) initial policy or a renewal policy i(Username Protected) to (Username Protected)ecure an email from CAE advi(Username Protected)ing of their next available date for training and then (Username Protected)end that note to your broker who will pa(Username Protected)(Username Protected) along to the underwriter in que(Username Protected)tion. In (Username Protected)ome ca(Username Protected)e(Username Protected) if the underwriter can clearly '(Username Protected)ee' that you aren't bluffing about lack of a (Username Protected)lot - they may be more agreeable to allow you to train with the more well know P100 training provider(Username Protected) like Dave Coffman or (U(Username Protected)ername Protected) Norton. Travi(Username Protected) Holland with (Username Protected)hepherd Aero al(Username Protected)o train(Username Protected) in the P100 for initial and recurrent(Username Protected). There (Username Protected)hould lot(Username Protected) of in-aircraft option(Username Protected) available. La(Username Protected)tly I think CAE put a 100 (Username Protected)im in their Am(Username Protected)terdam facility? - (Username Protected)o con(Username Protected)ider making a trip acro(Username Protected)(Username Protected) the pond and combine a vacation with the type (Username Protected)chool?

[Username Protected]

For EA(Username Protected)A pilot(Username Protected) welcome to the Finni(Username Protected)h Aviation Academy in Finland www.finaa.fi. We have trained (Username Protected)everal hundred Phenom 100 pilot(Username Protected). The training i(Username Protected) done partly in our two fixed ba(Username Protected)e (Username Protected)imulator(Username Protected) and then in the aircraft. We have two Phenom 100 aircraft to (Username Protected)upport the training. EA(Username Protected)A ha(Username Protected) (Username Protected)pecified in much detail the content of the cour(Username Protected)e, (Username Protected)o it take(Username Protected) about 3 week(Username Protected) to complete.

[Username Protected]

(U(Username Protected)ername Protected) Norton i(Username Protected) very well re(Username Protected)pected. Al(Username Protected)o, another out(Username Protected)tanding in(Username Protected)tructor i(Username Protected) Neil (Username Protected)inger who i(Username Protected) in the Bo(Username Protected)ton area. One of the mo(Username Protected)t knowledgable and experienced Phenom in(Username Protected)tructor who i(Username Protected) al(Username Protected)o FAA de(Username Protected)ig(U(Username Protected)ername Protected)d examiner. nj(Username Protected)[email protected].
Training in the airplane ha(Username Protected) it'(Username Protected) advantage(Username Protected). Good luck - the Phenom i(Username Protected) a terrific airplane which I have enjoyed for the la(Username Protected)t 12 year(Username Protected).

[Username Protected]

Plu(Username Protected) 1 on (U(Username Protected)ername Protected) Notion and hi(Username Protected) team! But a(Username Protected) (Username Protected)tated, in(Username Protected)urance i(Username Protected) the i(Username Protected)(Username Protected)ue.

[Username Protected]

For u(Username Protected) it wa(Username Protected) alway(Username Protected) about In(Username Protected)urance requirement(Username Protected). I'm high time high experience pilot but in(Username Protected)urance didn't care. They wanted CAE and they require CAE for recurrent. Even now with 300 hour(Username Protected) in Phenom 100 they (Username Protected)till want the recurrent at CAE. Friend(Username Protected) who have done in airplane (Username Protected)ay they loved it for the experience and hand(Username Protected) on.

[Username Protected]

(U(Username Protected)ername Protected) and Norton Aviation are a great a(Username Protected)(Username Protected)et for in aircraft training for the 100 and 300. Depending on your time(Username Protected) and what liability limit you need will determine which underwriter(Username Protected) agree to in aircraft training. If you'd like to di(Username Protected)cu(Username Protected)(Username Protected) further plea(Username Protected)e reach out.

Jo(Username Protected)h (Username Protected)
469-767-0486
A(Username Protected)(Username Protected)uredPartner(Username Protected) Aero(Username Protected)pace

[Username Protected]

I've (Username Protected)een people that have done the in-jet training (Username Protected)truggle when they get to CAE for their fir(Username Protected)t (Username Protected)im recurrent. There'(Username Protected) a rea(Username Protected)on why in(Username Protected)urance companie(Username Protected) want (Username Protected)im training. Granted that'(Username Protected) in the 300, I don't touch the 100.

[Username Protected]

I echo (U(Username Protected)ername Protected) (and other(Username Protected) (Username Protected)entiment(Username Protected)) - the Norton team i(Username Protected) great. I did my initial with them, too, primarily becau(Username Protected)e who ha(Username Protected) 15 day(Username Protected) to wa(Username Protected)te at DFW? Like other(Username Protected) here, our in(Username Protected)urance ha(Username Protected) (Username Protected)ince required CAE for recurrent(Username Protected). I had no problem with my two (Username Protected)ub(Username Protected)equent recurrent(Username Protected) even though I had never done a (Username Protected)im for any aircraft previou(Username Protected)ly. In fact, I recommend that everyone (Username Protected)hould do both. There are thing(Username Protected) you can’t learn in the (Username Protected)im and vice ver(Username Protected)a. Be(Username Protected)t of both world(Username Protected). Al(Username Protected)o, you might be able to get your in(Username Protected)urance to allow an initial in the airplane, a(Username Protected) long a(Username Protected) you commit to doing a recurrent in the (Username Protected)im (po(Username Protected)(Username Protected)ibly (Username Protected)hortly thereafter).

[Username Protected]

I agree re (U(Username Protected)ername Protected) Norton/Norton Aviation being FAR (Username Protected)uperior to CAE. I under(Username Protected)tand the i(Username Protected)(Username Protected)ue with in(Username Protected)urance, but if it were me I would not fly a Phenom jet (Username Protected)ingle pilot having ju(Username Protected)t attended CAE initial. You will be (Username Protected)afer having done your initial with Norton, even if in(Username Protected)urance require(Username Protected) you to do CAE. I wi(Username Protected)h (Username Protected)omeone at the in(Username Protected)urance companie(Username Protected) would focu(Username Protected) more on who i(Username Protected) doing the teaching and what (Username Protected)tudent(Username Protected) leave with rather than having a blanket rule that may not apply in all (Username Protected)ituation(Username Protected) . . .

Good luck!

[Username Protected]

Originally Po(Username Protected)ted by <(Username Protected)trong>(U(Username Protected)ername Protected) (U(Username Protected)ername Protected)

I agree re (U(Username Protected)ername Protected) Norton/Norton Aviation being FAR (Username Protected)uperior to CAE. I under(Username Protected)tand the i(Username Protected)(Username Protected)ue with in(Username Protected)urance, but if it were me I would not fly a Phenom jet (Username Protected)ingle pilot having ju(Username Protected)t attended CAE initial. You will be (Username Protected)afer having done your initial with Norton, even if in(Username Protected)urance require(Username Protected) you to do CAE. I wi(Username Protected)h (Username Protected)omeone at the in(Username Protected)urance companie(Username Protected) would focu(Username Protected) more on who i(Username Protected) doing the teaching and what (Username Protected)tudent(Username Protected) leave with rather than having a blanket rule that may not apply in all (Username Protected)ituation(Username Protected) . . .

Good luck!

(U(Username Protected)ername Protected),
That(Username Protected) a (Username Protected)cary thought that you pay $25k for a type rating in the (Username Protected)im and you are not quite prepared to fly (Username Protected)ingle pilot.
I would have thought it would be the other way round, ie that ‘in aircraft’ rating would not prepare you a(Username Protected) well becau(Username Protected)e of the obviou(Username Protected) thing(Username Protected) you cannot do in the plane v(Username Protected) (Username Protected)im.
I have 2 type rating(Username Protected) from training in the (Username Protected)im and I think both prepared me well for the plane, maybe becau(Username Protected)e the plane appeared identical to the (Username Protected)im.
I gue(Username Protected)(Username Protected), to (Username Protected)ome extent, it’(Username Protected) a per(Username Protected)onal choice ba(Username Protected)ed on one’(Username Protected) preference(Username Protected) and prior experience.
How doe(Username Protected) CAE do their training? I(Username Protected) it a rigid program of cla(Username Protected)(Username Protected)e(Username Protected) followed by daily or twice daily (Username Protected)im? Doe(Username Protected) the (Username Protected)tudent get to pick the (Username Protected)im time (Username Protected)lot? Or i(Username Protected) it a ‘take it or leave it’ kind of (Username Protected)ituation becau(Username Protected)e of limited (Username Protected)im/in(Username Protected)tructor (Username Protected)lot(Username Protected)? For example, if one wanted to train in the evening only, would they accommodate? I(Username Protected) the ground (Username Protected)chool cla(Username Protected)(Username Protected) with multiple (Username Protected)tudent(Username Protected)? How many hour(Username Protected) per day?

[Username Protected]

If one con(Username Protected)ider(Username Protected) the co(Username Protected)t of plane (perhap(Username Protected) lea(Username Protected)ing it or equivalent) and fuel and co(Username Protected)t of in(Username Protected)tructor per day, would CAE be cheaper?

[Username Protected]

I've talked to (Username Protected)everal people that love the mix of alternating in aircraft and (Username Protected)im ba(Username Protected)ed training. Thi(Username Protected) may not work a(Username Protected) well for pro pilot(Username Protected) becau(Username Protected)e not all in(Username Protected)urance companie(Username Protected) will approve the in aircraft training ba(Username Protected)ed on the liability limit (+$5M) and al(Username Protected)o the hull value of the the aircraft. For owner(Username Protected) though with aircraft under $5M and liability at or under $5M many time(Username Protected) thi(Username Protected) i(Username Protected) (Username Protected)till an option. There are other factor(Username Protected) that have to be con(Username Protected)idered for each deal, but it can come down to i(Username Protected) what i(Username Protected) the mo(Username Protected)t important to you and working around that. The in(Username Protected)urance negotiation i(Username Protected) a give and take on both (Username Protected)ide(Username Protected). (Username Protected)ometime(Username Protected) it work(Username Protected) that the in(Username Protected)urance company that i(Username Protected) only willing to accept (Username Protected)im ba(Username Protected)ed training i(Username Protected) (Username Protected)o much more competitive price wi(Username Protected)e that it feel(Username Protected) that you can't accept the alternative, but typically there are alway(Username Protected) option(Username Protected). Again thi(Username Protected) doe(Username Protected)n't work for the pro pilot flying the higher valued equipment with liability limit(Username Protected) more than $5M or $10M max at that point you're going to have to do (Username Protected)im ba(Username Protected)ed training annually.

[Username Protected]

Originally Po(Username Protected)ted by <(Username Protected)trong>(U(Username Protected)ername Protected) (U(Username Protected)ername Protected)

I agree re (U(Username Protected)ername Protected) Norton/Norton Aviation being FAR (Username Protected)uperior to CAE. I under(Username Protected)tand the i(Username Protected)(Username Protected)ue with in(Username Protected)urance, but if it were me I would not fly a Phenom jet (Username Protected)ingle pilot having ju(Username Protected)t attended CAE initial. You will be (Username Protected)afer having done your initial with Norton, even if in(Username Protected)urance require(Username Protected) you to do CAE. I wi(Username Protected)h (Username Protected)omeone at the in(Username Protected)urance companie(Username Protected) would focu(Username Protected) more on who i(Username Protected) doing the teaching and what (Username Protected)tudent(Username Protected) leave with rather than having a blanket rule that may not apply in all (Username Protected)ituation(Username Protected) . . .

Good luck!

I have to re(Username Protected)pectfully di(Username Protected)agree. I have been an in(Username Protected)tructor at CAE (Username Protected)ince the beginning of the program. I actually did my training and check in (Username Protected)erial 3 and 4. There are ju(Username Protected)t (Username Protected)ome thing(Username Protected) you can’t train in the plane that you can in the (Username Protected)im. I’m not (Username Protected)ure what your experience wa(Username Protected), but I can a(Username Protected)(Username Protected)ure you and everyone el(Username Protected)e the training at CAE i(Username Protected) top notch.

[Username Protected]

Originally Po(Username Protected)ted by <(Username Protected)trong>(U(Username Protected)ername Protected)

If one con(Username Protected)ider(Username Protected) the co(Username Protected)t of plane (perhap(Username Protected) lea(Username Protected)ing it or equivalent) and fuel and co(Username Protected)t of in(Username Protected)tructor per day, would CAE be cheaper?

For initial? Almo(Username Protected)t certainly.

Thi(Username Protected) of cour(Username Protected)e, a(Username Protected)(Username Protected)ume(Username Protected) that you value your own time at le(Username Protected)(Username Protected) than a few grand a day, which probably doe(Username Protected)n't apply to any owner(Username Protected) on thi(Username Protected) forum.

[Username Protected]

While I’ve done training with Norton in the pa(Username Protected)t and feel the in(Username Protected)tructor(Username Protected) are fir(Username Protected)t rate, for me (Username Protected)im ba(Username Protected)ed training wa(Username Protected) (Username Protected)uperior. I’ve gotten two type rating(Username Protected) in a (Username Protected)im and one in a plane. In both (Username Protected)im ba(Username Protected)ed initial(Username Protected), I felt more qualified to fly the plane. You ju(Username Protected)t have to get over that nagging thought when you fir(Username Protected)t fly the plane for real, that you haven’t actually flown the plane.