[Username Protected]

Anyone use SICs regularly in the 100? We are looking to start using them and are wondering what the going rate these days is. Goal is to increase our operating safety as well as help up and coming pilots gain jet time to further their careers. Anyone paying different rates based on TT? 1500+ vs. < 1000 for example?

Appreciate the input!

[Username Protected]

More and more insurance policies are requiring an SIC these days. When using a non typed or low time SIC you have to ask, what are they bringing to the flight deck? If safety is the goal but the PIC is distracted giving instruction to an inexperienced pilot then the goal isn’t being reached. To answer your question, I fly with SIC’s that have low total time, but are part of the CAE right seater program and they get between $1800-$2000 per day. I would be happy myself to fly with y’all. I am not an SIC, but definitely bring safety and professionalism to any Phenom. If increasing operating safety is the goal you can’t go cheap. Cheap and safety do not go together. Please keep me in mind for any needs you might have. 8179038152

[Username Protected]

If you're Part 91 and helping them gain time, they need to be PIC rated. The better question is what is your organization looking to spend? daily contractors? Full time SIC? Etc.

[Username Protected]

Agree wholeheartedly with (Username Protected). A non-typed, low time pilot is only worth low pay but the cost and risk is much greater. If you are wanting safety, it is not by filling a seat. Safety is only achieved by hiring a well trained crew that has standardization, crew coordination and operational experience. Otherwise, you are better off hiring a highly experienced single pilot.

[Username Protected]

I fly as crew on Phenom 300s. I'm SP-typed and sim current but prefer two pilots. Rate is typically $1,500.

[Username Protected]

I think the rate depends on the role of the person in the right seat. We are a Part 91 single company operator and have single pilot coverage for our 300. We are located in a rural area and do not have easy access to contract pilots without commercial travel each direction for each trip. Most of our trips are just one day- so it becomes logistically difficult and expensive- one day turns into 3 along with travel expenses. At $2000+ a day as seems to be the bar these days, that can be over $7000 for a one day trip. From much research, it is important to note that the FAA has ruled that only one pilot can log the time in an aircraft certified single pilot unless the type of operation determines otherwise, even if both pilots are type rated. For Part 91, there is really no exceptions unless flight instruction is being given by a properly certified and qualified CFI for that airframe. Insurance requirements do not qualify as a crew requirement as far as the FAA is concerned. There are trips when I fly single pilot, but there are also other times when a second pilot is the best route from a safety and workload requirement - going into especially busy or unfamiliar airspace, anticipated poor weather, long flights, etc. Also, one of our owners always wants a second pilot when they are onboard who can land the airplane if the one of the pilots were to become incapacitated. I know this will be controversial for some, but it works extremely well for us at this time. Our approach is to find couple of solid pilots with a commercial multi-engine instrument rating, put them in the right seat, and get them to the point where they are efficient on the radios in the IFR system, using the avionics and flight control systems, and have the ability to fly and land the aircraft in case of a pilot incapacitation emergency. It also gives them exposure to be able to become SIC type rated and beyond in the future as insurance companies allow it with their experience level. As stated above, the unfortunate side is that they cannot log any of the flight time. This approach allows us to easily find very capable and enthusiastic pilots who are looking to find a path to obtain a type rating and fly turbine aircraft in their future. It also provides a second pilot with reasonable experience on the flight deck and a backup for an emergency only incapacitation scenario. Their daily rate takes into account their experience, but also the fact that they are not type rated. It is obviously lower than the full type-rated rate. For us, it is a win-win approach.

[Username Protected]

Both of us are SP rated but operate as a crew.
We alternate days, acting as PIC/SIC.
The owner requires high level of experience and strict compliance to SOPs, operating his 91 trips.
For a combined 100 years of airline/military flying experience, 60K hours of heavy jet time, (including 7000 hours in type) and 30 type ratings, he gladly pays each of us $3000 per day. Being a very smart businessman, he knows his life is worth much more than that. He also gets a substantial reduction in his insurance rates.
Some days, we just fly him from his home in PSP to SNA or CRQ for a leisurely lunch.
I know that may sound exhausting, but some poor retiree has to do it! ?
We are based in SoCal and available for limited contract work.

[Username Protected]

unfortunately you will have to have an approved SIC development program. I am not sure if a part 91 operation can achieve that or is that for part 135 ops?

[Username Protected]

unfortunately you will have to have an approved SIC development program. I am not sure if a part 91 operation can achieve that or is that for part 135 ops?

The FAA SIC Professional Development Program (PDP) is only for Part 135 operators. The approval process is not exactly easy, and involves a fair amount of paperwork --- however it is the only way (short of logging dual instruction) for a co-crew member to actually log SIC time if the 135 or 91 is flown by an '---S' rated pilot and the flight conditions allow the same.

Regretfully I have found a number of 'SICs' I've flown with are under the impression they can log the time when flying with an SP-rated pilot (non-CFI) without a PDP. I always sign their logbook and let them know the rules. I found one particular legal case where a pilot had his license actually revoked for logging SIC time incorrectly.

I guess technically you could not use a headset, move the checklists away from the pilot, agree to not use the AP before flight, etc. to not qualify for SP flight, However then you are limited to non-RVSM without the AP, and the crew technically would need to receive crew training as well.

Basically, the 'SIC' is just another passenger unless the various conditions above are met. In the 135 world, they actually can't touch a thing or operate the radio if the flight is SP. When I was flying some 135 ops, the FAA POI and I had an interesting discussion on the topic, and he was a great inspector to work with.

[Username Protected]

(Username Protected),

Can you clarify this ? an '---S' rated pilot?

[Username Protected]

(Username Protected),

Can you clarify this ? an '---S' rated pilot?

Sure (Username Protected) - I used the nomenclature for a gen(Username Protected) Single-Pilot rated pilot, for example: EMB-500 (without SIC required), CE525S, EA500S

If a pilot only has a crew rating, e.g. EMB-500 SIC Required, CE525 etc.- then they would always need another rated pilot, who could have either an SIC type rating or a full type rating (EMB-500, or EMB-500S in the case of the Phenom 100).

The FAA issued a interpretation, named the 'Cato Letter' in 2014 for this scenario. Logging flight time, since it is so important to pilots, has probably been the most discussed topic in aviation that I've observed in my career. There are also additional FAA interpretations as well.

Here it is:
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf

I run into this all the time teaching pilots. I think there is a potential work around to log SIC time without an instructor, however I've never asked the FAA for interpretation and don't want others to rely on my method.

Maybe I need to write one of my magazine articles on this topic

[Username Protected]

Maybe that’s why I get asked are you a multi engine CFI? Anyhow we have the SIC Development Program and I am a CFI. Great discussion and thanks fire laying it all out.

[Username Protected]

Maybe that’s why I get asked are you a multi engine CFI? Anyhow we have the SIC Development Program and I am a CFI. Great discussion and thanks fire laying it all out.

(Username Protected) - I think I've interpreted it correctly, however I'm not the FAA Legal Office. It is fascinating that they need to issue letters, but they can be helpful with certain scenarios.

As you know the PDP is wonderful, and allows non-CFI Captains to mentor pilots who can log time. You don't have to be a CFI to offer a great deal of excellent instruction to the next generation of pilots. I may be wrong, however in talking with a number of 'SICs' I do think they are erroneously logging time outside of a PDP.

I've been teaching my son since he was 2, and now his kids. He now flies professionally with me in a number of different jets as he progresses. Flying 550-650 hours a year with him the past two years has been a great experience and I intersperse it with other pilots moving through the ranks. As a CFII it is great to provide the instruction. A non-CFI pilot can sign off instruction for the SIC rating, however after they achieve that goal there is no clear-cut method for Part 91 Captains to continue with the instruction.

[Username Protected]

Hi, (Username Protected).

I do quite a bit of contract flying in both the Phenom 100 and 300. As a few have noted in here, the going rate seems to be between $1,700 and $2,000 per day, plus expenses, regardless of the seat that is occupied.

Let me know if I can ever help you out or if you have any questions! (Username Protected)@StaffLink.net and (305) 915-4545.

(Username Protected),
N685AS

[Username Protected]

Hi (Username Protected). Please call me with regard to the above. I would like to discuss. As we’re all getting unsolicited calls if your text first I will know to except the inbound call. Thank you. Look forward to hearing from you. (Username Protected) (850) 559-4800.

[Username Protected]

Looking for mentoring. Please send your rates. 850-559-4800.

[Username Protected]

[QUOTE=(Username Protected);60454]Hi (Username Protected). Please call me with regard to the above. I would like to discuss. As we’re all getting unsolicited calls if your text first I will know to except the inbound call. Thank you. Look forward to hearing from you. (Username Protected) (850) 559-4800.[/

[Username Protected]

Hi (Username Protected), my name is (Username Protected). Recently typed single pilot in the 300. Could you please call me about the above? I’d like to discuss your above post. My phone number is 850-559-4800. If possible, please text first as we all get so many unsolicited calls I will know to recognize the number. Thank you.