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  1. Username Protected
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       #1  

    Long Range Cruise

    What protocol(s) do you use for long range cruise in a Phenom 100/100EV?
    We appear to burn about 600 lbs of fuel to FL400/410 in CLIMB and burn about 625 lbs/hour at Max Cruise. That will give us about 2.5 to 2.75 hours of flight time with 800-1000 lbs of reserve at landing.
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    #2  

    Tas?

    What is your TAS at FL410 at Max Cruise with the 625lbs/hr fuel burn?
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       #3  
    TAS 370 at FL 400
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    #4  

    Lrc

    If I can get to 400 or 410, I usually leave the power at max cruise. If stuck at a lower altitude and range is an issue, I’ll usually bring it back to match the TAS speed I would have had at altitude (around 370) and see what my fuel on destination reads. This is a 100EV. When I was flying an earlier model, I was usually a couple thousand feet lower than the EV.
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    #5  
    Quick follow up to this thread as I consulted this group for best practices earlier and haven’t contributed as much as I should. I bought, sold and took factory delivery of a 100EV last week for a local managed client in Naples. I have little real experience flying the 100EV.

    Today we flew FRG to APF non-stop in a headwind higher than forecast. ForeFlight performance showed 1999 lbs for the trip using LRC at 400. We actually received 410 for some periods with 2 descents and return climbs. I expected the reality of early descent into Florida as Nextgen airspace reconfiguration seem to have made things worse rather than better but the headwind was a bummer. Up to 35 knots on the nose. I followed the G3000 FMS speed but substituted approximate book LRC on the low level descent level offs.

    With perfect weather and a FOD of 500-600+ consistent, we continued. Despite the early descent and long final around the long way to the airport, I parked with 510 lbs. 1076 nm and 3:28 enroute.

    Take away; max endurance for me in any 100 is 3.5 hours. No change. And the EV is an awesome plane!

    Question, is there a better approach and what does LRC criteria really mean to you in the 100 and when do you use it best vs other cruise options or strategies?
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    #6  
    To be honest, I have never used LRC. So far my plan for extra range has been to fly as high as I can and maybe pull it back to .63 or so if it is cold enough. My longest flight with this technique has been about 3 hours and landing with 500 to 600 pounds. You can certainly get more time aloft with LRC, not sure if the extra miles range is worth it. I am not criticizing your technique, just not something I have tried yet. I should try it just to see what it does for me.
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    #7  
    (Username Protected), It was the only way I could see getting the trip done without a stop. Of course, I agree 100 lb savings isn’t worth the extra 15 min on the plane, but if the trip is on the margin and saves a cycle and even more, I’m guessing it is.
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    #8  
    Flying LRC when it works like you did is fine. There is always the dudes that buy a jet to fly fast and won’t do it. Different options for different missions is a good thing.
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    TAS 370 at FL 400
    Thank you for the info. I had to sell my share of my Honda Jet, and I'm currently in an Eclipse 500. In the Eclipse I'm seeing 350TAS burning 390-400lbs/hr. Depending on temp, that is typically between FL390-410. If my finances can get back to where they were in 2021, I may go into the Phenom 100 or back into the Honda for more space (we usually travel with two road bikes, which makes it tight with 4 people. 4 bikes is not possible in the Eclipse without really crunching the passengers, but was easy in the Honda).
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    #10  
    (Username Protected), so far my trip length/winds have either been short enough that my usual technique has worked, or it has been too long for even trying LRC and had to do a fuel stop. I agree with you that extra flight time is better and safer than adding an extra stop if it can be avoided.
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    #11  
    The way I think about LRC is based solely on fuel burn. I plan on burning 600 lbs per hour (PPH) at 41,000 ft or even lower if I'm concerned about fuel. If I'm burning more than that and I need the extra fuel, then I'll pull the power back to 600 pph and if I really want to conserve fuel, I'll pull back further to 560. I don't focus on the speed; just the fuel burn even if ATC descends me to a lower altitude, I'll set the power to burn 600 pph. If I'm not concerned about fuel, then I just set max cruise.

    No judgement, but you're landing with a lot of fuel for a place like Florida where there are airports nearly every 10 - 15 minutes along any route of flight. You should use whatever your personal minimums are. Mine are closer to 500 lbs at landing, which is another 30 minutes of cruise. Going into NY, that feels tight because it's the only place in the U.S. I receive holds. Or if I'm going into Florida and there are thunderstorms forecasted, I will raise my fuel minimums in case there's one directly over my destination when I get there and I prefer not to divert.
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    #12  
    This is a great discussion. In the 300 using LRC can mean the difference of having 'comfortable' fuel reserves. Sure ForeFlight says you should have a certain amount of fuel upon landing, but we all know sometimes you can't take on extra fuel, winds change or you get reroutes. In the 300 we typically burn around 1,000 PPH or just below at Max Cruise. But if you need to you can get into the charts and set LRC. That instantly gets you into the 800 and change PPH, However you IAS will drop from 210 to 188 if you are heavy. But if you look it and can save 200 lbs or more over a 4 + hour trip you can build up enough to get somewhere. You can also look at the FMS and see that once you get to a comfortable fuel level, just let the jet continue to accelerate on its own from that point forward. But check winds for the remainder of the trip to ensure you don't hit increased winds.

    In all reality, the LRC is built on a wing AOA and in the 300 its about 3º nose up and based on continuing to pull the throttles back after you burn off 500 lbs of fuel or each 1/2 hour. I wish the Garmin systems had AOA displayed in these planes (Max Range & Max Endurance [holding]). The G3000 FMS does have some pointers that can display the FMS derived airspeeds for max cruise, LRC, and other Mach numbers and match the POH charts.
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    #13  
    Take away; max endurance for me in any 100 is 3.5 hours
    So here is the rookie question of the day. I'm looking at a vanilla 100 to go from CYUL to KFXE. About 1200nm point-to-point. I typically stop KILM for customs & bio-break in a Duke.

    Assuming no adverse WX forecast, do I have a prayer of making CYUL to KFXE in 1 hop?

    From the math Im doing, it looks pretty thin, but just wondering if, once below FL180, you cancel the IFR (IE gain another 15 mins reserve) can it be done in favorable conditions or am I dreaming in Technicolor?
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    #14  
    I am not sure of the distances from YUL to ILM and then on to Florida, but it should be doable. Especially if ILM is about half way. That is presuming you can depart with full fuel. Officially the range is a little better in the 100EV, but by only a small amount. The best thing about coming out of Canada is that you can pick and choose where to stop for customs to accommodate for weather and winds and such.
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    I am not sure of the distances from YUL to ILM and then on to Florida, but it should be doable. Especially if ILM is about half way.
    Sorry LOL... my question is not clear... can I make it YUL to FXE (1200nm) in 1 shot
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    From the math Im doing, it looks pretty thin, but just wondering if, once below FL180, you cancel the IFR (IE gain another 15 mins reserve) can it be done in favorable conditions or am I dreaming in Technicolor?
    What’s your plan if there is a runway closure due to a disabled aircraft or airport closure while enroute? Are you comfortable diverting to a potentially-busier airport while VFR? ATC would likely not give much priority to a VFR aircraft trying to enter the airspace quickly because of suboptimal fuel planning.
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    What’s your plan if there is a runway closure due to a disabled aircraft or airport closure while enroute? Are you comfortable diverting to a potentially-busier airport while VFR? ATC would likely not give much priority to a VFR aircraft trying to enter the airspace quickly because of suboptimal fuel planning.
    Yes, I would be ok to divert...just looking at possibilities
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    #18  
    If I had read your post more carefully, I would have seen that you are asking about non stop YUL to FXE; unless you have a really good tailwind, I would say it is not possible. Or should I say not possible except on the rare occasions when winds and weather are both aligned.
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    #19  
    From my experience LRC is really about abnormal situations (single engine max ceiling FL310, depressurization descent to FL250 with masks, etc) and then you're only cruising in those situations when you have limited options, like the Canada-Greenland-Iceland-Europe route I planned this summer. In those scenarios, the difference between max cruise and LRC is huge. I've played with the numbers at normal cruise (360-410) as everyone else above was mentioning and found it to make little difference. The plane seems wonderfully designed around Max Cruise at those altitudes and pulling it back doesn't change the efficiency enough to matter to me up high.
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    #20  
    Very cool! (Username Protected), did you just plan the scenario, or did you fly it too. Got any pics? I want to do it sometime!

    I agree that the Phenom seems to be designed around max cruise and that it’s hard to make LRC numbers accomplish much better.
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    I agree that the Phenom seems to be designed around max cruise and that it’s hard to make LRC numbers accomplish much better.
    ]

    it’s not that the plane is designed around this. The engines can’t produce the thrust at MTOW at Altitude, so LTC = LRC. Therefore it takes fuel burn off to get to a meaningful LRC.

    Thats why at lower altitude, with OEI etc. LRC has savings.

    (Username Protected)

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