[Username Protected]

CAE just recently opened a training center in Las Vegas - but unsure if the sims are up and running at this time - I surmise they are and also taking schedule reservations.

[Username Protected]

it is one thing for CAE to wish to be insulated additional insured/waiver on the trainee's policy - which most if not all trainers require anyway. It's another thing to have insurance requirements which are completely out of touch with insurance (Username Protected)et reality in the aviation space. THAT is the issue not so much that they are requiring to be listed on your policy.

Their behavior is not punitive to us. It’s just taking full and more advantage of the (Username Protected)et dynamics. In a single word, it’s called a ‘monopoly’. We just happen to be on the short end of it.

[Username Protected]

CAE obviously has their own insurance. Their General Liability "slip and fall" would cover any injuries on the premises. Here they're requiring Work Comp for trainees so the Phenom owner's insurance is primary and their slip and fall secondary. CAE's Professional Liability or E&O would also cover fault/negligence for improper training.

Indemnity and hold harmless clauses are hard to uphold in court and are specific to state, which is why they are requiring NOT just a "sign here", but the certificate of insurance with Waiver of Subrogation. Waiver of Subrogation is typically for hull losses, but if the owner takes off after completing training and crashes, causing bodily injury, it prevents the owner's insurance company from subrogating against CAE for hull or liability.

Ultimately, it's a transfer of risk from CAE's insurance policy to a Phenom owner's insurance policy, which could affect rates down the road if it increases losses.

My guess is CAE's risk manager is looking at the significant increased exposure of liability settlements we've seen post COVID from companies like Disney and the airport worker who got $350M. https://www.courthousenews.com/texas...irport-worker/

[Username Protected]

CAE just recently opened a training center in Las Vegas - but unsure if the sims are up and running at this time - I surmise they are and also taking schedule reservations.

I believe the LAS facility is up and running... I have not heard any reports, positive or negative yet.

(Username Protected)
https://www.(Username Protected)aviation.com

[Username Protected]

I've joined the club on this too, as I have training scheduled in just over two weeks. I received the same clause in the documents, which they said haven't changed in years. Oddly, I did not seem to have to sign this last year for my recurrent (perhaps that was just a miss on their side)? I'm going to see if I can make some progress with their attorney; otherwise I too may have to go with plan B!

[Username Protected]

I've joined the club on this too, as I have training scheduled in just over two weeks. I received the same clause in the documents, which they said haven't changed in years. Oddly, I did not seem to have to sign this last year for my recurrent (perhaps that was just a miss on their side)? I'm going to see if I can make some progress with their attorney; otherwise I too may have to go with plan B!

I'm certain that I didn't have this clause in the past, however, this was going to be the first time I was going to use my own money to pay CAE. My 3 previous visits were all part of my new airplane package.

--(Username Protected)

[Username Protected]

There was a report on a Phenom Pilots FB group a couple weeks ago that they were one of the first to train in LAS. So it is apparently up and running now.

I believe the LAS facility is up and running... I have not heard any reports, positive or negative yet.

(Username Protected)
https://www.(Username Protected)aviation.com

[Username Protected]

CAE just recently opened a training center in Las Vegas - but unsure if the sims are up and running at this time - I surmise they are and also taking schedule reservations.

I called on this - this is only a Phenom 300 G3000 model. If you want any other combo, go to Dallas.

[Username Protected]

Thanks (Username Protected) for the intel!

[Username Protected]

I just talked to W Brown and they are the insurance company that underwriters Norton Aviation. W Brown can approve in-aircraft training by Norton Aviation for both initial and recurrent training as a very nice alternative to CAE. They gave us a great quote for pro pilots that couldn't get into CAE's initial until October 31st for the first slot and January 31st for the second pilot slot.

[Username Protected]

I just met with Walter Slazyk, the GM of Embraer CAE during the the Embraer convention, and he told me that based on the feedback in this thread CAE will modify the training agreement within the next few weeks. They will lower the insurance required to $5M liability (or even less if required) and no insurance requirements for contract pilots.

Thanks Tyler, (Username Protected), (Username Protected) and more for raising this issue.

[Username Protected]

They will lower the insurance required to $5M liability (or even less if required) and no insurance requirements for contract pilots.

Thanks Tyler, (Username Protected), (Username Protected) and more for raising this issue.

Thank you (Username Protected) - It is pleasant to see the second half as well "even less if required" as there still exists jet transition pilots into the Phenom 100 that may not qualify for the $5m limit initially. So great to see they will do things case by case and make amends to the requirement as needed. Thank you for your legwork with CAE this week.

[Username Protected]

I am confused by this thread. Is this a new policy at CAE? I don't think I was ever asked for this.

[Username Protected]

I am confused by this thread. Is this a new policy at CAE? I don't think I was ever asked for this.

(Username Protected) a few points

1) The agreement indemnifying CAE along with the high liability insurance requirements has been there for a long time - you likely e-signed it when you onboarded as a new cus(Username Protected)er.
2) However, CAE has typically not asked for a Certificate of Insurance during onboarding. So if someone just signed the agreement without really reading it, they wouldn't be aware of the stipulations.
3) If you pushed back on the agreement (like many of us did), you got inconsistent responses. Many were allowed to modify the agreement, others were told to absolutely not (see the long reply from legal in above post). No consistency.
4) The people that were told No had no option but the cancel training, since they could not sign the agreement agreeing to the high liability limits.

[Username Protected]

There were a few owners that were being asked to provide a Certificate of Insurance listing CAE as Additionally Insured with a Waiver of Subrogation with a liability limit of $20M per occurrence. I think something like 95% of owners never had this request but it was something new and unattainable liability limits which caused concern.

(Username Protected), great meeting you and all the other owners in Denver and thank you for spearheading this policy change with CAE back to $5M and lower for transitioning pilots.

[Username Protected]

I'm on my 5th training event at CAE and have never been asked once for proof of insurance. So this is all a bit confusing.

I just finished my 4-day recurrent on Tuesday and have previously been to CAE 8 times; they have never asked for proof of insurance.