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  1. Username Protected
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       #1  

    Praetor/Legacy insurance

    Legacy/Praetor owners/pilots.

    Could you reply with how much you are paying for insurance, what liability and hull you have covered, restrictions on pilots, and if you are owner flown?

    I'm getting different feedback from different agents on what will be insured. Specifically feedback I got from two agents said that myself (1500 hours TT, 700 jet, 600 Phenom 300) and a pro pilot with 3800 hrs, 3500 in various business jets half as PIC would NOT be insurable if we both went and got full sim type ratings. They wouldn't insure us until one of us had 500 hours in type.

    A third agent told me that scenario I listed could work. I've also heard rumors from actually insured that this scenario works also.

    Thanks in advance!

    -(Username Protected)
  2. Username Protected
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    #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    Legacy/Praetor owners/pilots.
    Could you reply with how much you are paying for insurance, what liability and hull you have covered, restrictions on pilots, and if you are owner flown?
    I am owner / operator / chief pilot of N808PD, a Praetor 500. We stepped up into the Praetor about 18 months ago, after several years flying SP in our Phenom 300. I fly the 8PD mostly with my husband Daniel, also an ex-Phenom pilot. I have about 2800 hrs TT, 1200 in the 505, and now about 500 in the Praetor; Daniel somewhat less. We did our 550 type ratings in the sim at Flight Safety in Dallas.

    We fly (all Part 91) under the umbrella of Summit Aviation in Bozeman, MT. Summit a charter operator with a number of Phenom 300s in their charter pool, and they also have ours plus two other Part 91 Praetors flying with them. Our insurance comes through Summit and their master policy. We carry $15+m hull, $100m liability. Paying about $35k/year - less than half of what we paid for our Phenom with far lower hull and liability limits.

    The great thing about this situation is that Summit is a flight school at heart, and basically everyone there is a CFI and teacher at heart. So they treat pilots like us as individuals rather than statistics, and have the credibility with the insurance carrier to make coverage decisions. For the first six months we were in the Praetor, they required us to have a "pro pilot" on board flying with us, but then after a line check with their chief pilot, we got cut free to fly on our own, which we have been doing ever since. We fly within their overall safety operation / SMS, file and observe Flight Risk Analysis reports for all of our flights, observe their safety and training rules, etc. None of this "overhead" has proved to be even the slightest inconvenience in practice, and it helps us feel like we're truly working toward pro-level safety in our operation.

    It's doable!
  3. Username Protected
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    (Username Protected)-
    One thing that needs to be understood is that insurance options through a large fleet policy like Summit has are not commensurate to what the OP (Username Protected) might find insuring a single aircraft on a standalone policy for Part 91 use. Fleet policies generally allow higher limits, open pilot flexibilities and overall a bit more leeway with pilots/quals than a typical standalone policy would. Insurers spreading risk over a large number of aircraft and substantially higher premium volume allows this condition. I think net net when you factor in a sizeable monthly aircraft management fee associated with a management company versus managing your own aircraft - the insurance 'savings' from a fleet policy only standpoint is a rounding error.

    That said the OP (Username Protected) is completely insurable as a crew in the proposed situation with a pro-pilot as noted. Should not have any issues securing insurance under the proposed situation.

    Lastly - appears based on (Username Protected)'s locale this policy might be placed through the London markets (Dubai base?) - so the aforementioned landscape is typical of what one might see via the USA insurance markets. I would surmise however that insurability via London markets for (Username Protected)'s situation also won't be an issue.
  4. Username Protected
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    #4  
    (Username Protected),
    I have access to the Lloyd's of London markets for aircraft insurance if you'd like to discuss. Is your Praetor going to be registered with the UAE or N registered with the US?

    The 500 hours in type requirement sounds more like an Open Pilot Warranty requirement than a Named Pilot requirement. With your experience in the Phenom 300 as an owner pilot, and another very well qualified pro pilot that's completing full motion simulator based initial training with you, it's often only required to complete an additional 10 hours with a mentor pilot after initial. But it definitely helps having a pro pilot that already has make and model time in the Praetor.

    For liability, the EU territory war liability limit minimum for a Embraer Praetor is $113,000,000 CSL. This limit is based on Maximum Gross Takeoff Weight (MTOW) and is required to operate a Embraer Praetor in countries like Italy, UK, UAE, etc.

    Attached Excel: EU War limit requirement per max take off weight. I hope this helps. Ben

    Name:  EU War limit requirement per max take off weight.png
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