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  1. Username Protected
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       #1  

    Phenom 300 N16DF Runway Excursion Hawthorne (KHHR)

    From CBS Los Angeles:

    A private plane crashed near Hawthorne Municipal Airport on Tuesday. According to firefighters on the scene, all occupants of the plane were able to safely evacuate after the plane crashed at around 6:40 p.m.

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    The plane, an Embraer EMB-505 Phenom 300, is reported to have skidded off the runway.

    Data from FlightRadar24 revealed that the plane originally took off from Jackson Hole, Wyoming, before landed at Hawthorne Municipal Airport. It traveled all the way to the end of the runway before sliding off due to the wet tarmac.

    Circumstances leading up to the crash were still not immediately known.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/n...horne-airport/
  2. Username Protected
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       #2  
    Data from ADS Exchange. Plane landed at 02:29Z.

    Runway 25 has a displaced threshold with an LDA of 4,193 ft. The runway is NOT grooved according to the A/FD (reminder that grooved runways end in -GRVD). If the ADS-B data is correct, the plane touched down 2,000 ft from the displaced threshold (1000 ft past the touchdown point).

    Normally a 2000 ft ground roll should be sufficient to get stopped, but surprise... light rain was reported in the most recent METAR.

    KHHR 280220Z 09003KT 7SM -RA FEW007 SCT013 OVC029 16/13 A2993 RMK AO2 RAB19 P0001 T01560133

    Looking at my ForeFlight landing numbers (assuming a 14,500 lbs landing weight), Wet Unfactored yields 3,250 ft. However Wet Factored and 0.125 Standing Water says the Runway is 800 ft shorter than required.

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    Based on the news helicopter photo, it seems the plane came to a stop just barely within the airport perimeter (with the wing poking out onto Prairie Ave). The localiser is NOTAMED out of service. So glad no one got hurt.

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  3. Username Protected
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    #3  
  4. Username Protected
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       #4  
    Thanks (Username Protected). Here are some more photos I found on Twitter this morning. Those orange pieces look like the localizer antenna.

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  5. Username Protected
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    #5  
    Standing/contaminated water looks visible in that first photo (puddle bot(Username Protected) right). It was pouring rain all day, definitely more than light rain at points prior to the light rain metar, and as (Username Protected) noted - no grooves to remove the water! Registered to a well known wealth management firm’s address here in SF, likely on behalf of a client and presumably part 91.

    edit: looks like more-than-light rain in the video footage (Username Protected) shared. And it showed the aircraft power was still on post evacuation. I have no idea how good my checklist adherence would be in an actual emergency evac, but I’d think BATT OFF memory item would hopefully kick in to reduce fire risk. Of course, total armchair quarterbacking here, they might have had a good reason to leave it on.
  6. Username Protected
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       #6  
    This Reddit thread has a video of the overrun.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comm...rport_27dec22/

    The road looks full with cars, glad they came to a stop.

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    #7  
    Such a shame that these kinds of incidents are so preventable with a little education on landing performance.

    There is a new section in the Phenom 300 & 100 POHs (latest revisions) titled "Operational Landing Distance" that if the pilot(s) would have referenced for this landing, they may have diverted to a more suitable runway.

    This new section of the POH is an incorporation of Embraer's Flight Operational Bulletins (FOL) (from 2014 & 2015) PHE505-018/14 and PHE500-002/15 for the Phenom 300 and 100 respectively and talks about the dangers of using the published "unfactored" wet runway distances on wet runways especially on ungrooved asphalt.

    The FOLs recommend using contaminated (standing water 0.125" for P300) runway distance numbers when landing on wet ungrooved runways. As (Username Protected) mentions above, the required runway distance for landing using 0.125" standing water would be 4860 ft assuming flaps full and around 14,800 lbs landing weight.

    4860' is just over 400 feet more than what runway 25 at KHHR is and that is assuming flying a perfect stabilized approach on speed with maximum braking. If the pilot(s) could have referenced the new section of the POH (below) on "Operational Landing Distance" for a wet runway (RWYCC of 5 is wet - unsure if that was reported by tower);
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    The pilot(s) would have come up with another prediction of their landing performance that may have influenced a decision to divert. If you use the METAR from above and giving the benefit of doubt by using 14,500 lbs, Flaps Full, and 5 knots fast over the threshold (according to ADS-B they were over 15 knots fast). Their predicted landing distance would have been just over 4600' which again is about 200' more than what runway 25 has at 4424'.

    Unfortunately these incidents will continue as long as pilots land on wet ungrooved runways that are less than 5000' without doing some detailed landing performance analysis.

    I get so bummed everytime this happens.

    Please spread the word about Phenom landing performance especially on wet ungrooved runways.
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    Data from ADS Exchange. Plane landed at 02:29Z.

    Runway 25 has a displaced threshold with an LDA of 4,193 ft. The runway is NOT grooved according to the A/FD (reminder that grooved runways end in -GRVD). If the ADS-B data is correct, the plane touched down 2,000 ft from the displaced threshold (1000 ft past the touchdown point).
    I was just reviewing ForeFlight runway analysis and doesn't look like it indicates runway grooving. To your point, I had to go to the A/FD to find that data. That seems like a miss that it isn't more broadly visible to make it easy to bring higher awareness to this. I'll have to add this to my workstream to ensure I am using correct landing corrections.
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    #9  
    (Username Protected),

    I’m not familiar with ADS Exchange and also how are you able to determine from their data how far down the jet’s touchdown point was?

    B
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    #10  
    (Username Protected),

    It definitely is important and good reminder for all of us. Kind of like the experience someone talked about landing on recently re-sealed asphalt on a really hot day and feeing like they went for a ride. Surface friction is REALLY important for the Phenoms and getting close to book numbers.
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       #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    I’m not familiar with ADS Exchange and also how are you able to determine from their data how far down the jet’s touchdown point was?
    Their data shows where the transponder switches from In-Air to Ground mode (WoW), but I am not sure how reliable that it is. Then just cross-referenced that location on the airport chart.

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    #12  
    Several years back at a Phenom conference we were given a presentation on the landing distance (factor) consideration as a function of various runway materials and groove. I think it was presented by Neil but it may have been (Username Protected). It was a great presentation that really made it clear how much runway construction impacts landing distance. My home built Told Card spreadsheet apllies various factors with grooved asphalt as the best (1.5x) and ungrooved concrete as the worst (2.5x). I make a point to check the AFD if I'm landing on a contaminated runway.

    I don't want to jinx myself but I'd hestitate to land on a 4100' dry runway during daylight hours. I wouldn't even consider anything less than 5000' at night and in the rain.
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    #13  
    Because of the hydroplaning at the end I suspect the crew felt that normal breaking action wasn’t going to stop them before end and perhaps they grabbed emergency brake too hard and locked up wheels causing the hydroplaning at the end. Thoughts?
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    #14  
    Or pilot perhaps tried to exit runway last taxi way to fast and that cause the skid. Hmmmm
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    #15  
    Not a great week. Glad no one is hurt and hopefully, the pilots will share their experience.
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       #16  

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