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  1. Username Protected
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       #1  

    P300 Bleed Fail

    Today while at 45K' enroute to Boston we were given a crossing fix that required a steep flight-idle decent to ~30K'. About midway into the decent our ears popped as a pressure wave passed through the cabin and we had a BLEED 2 fail CAS. Per the QRH we turned it off for a minute and back to Auto; CAS cleared, and we had no subsequent issues.

    Anyone had this happen to them? I have a coast-coast flight next week with a full plane of passengers and really don't want to be humiliated by an AOG event.
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    #2  
    (Username Protected)lip, We had the same issue. We had 2 pre-cooler vane failures at their welds. See SL505-36-0003-32-REV.02-PNEUMATIC BLEED 1(2) FAIL DUE TO BLEED TEMPERATURE SENSOR. I can send photos that WestStar in Grand Junction took. They were great at addressing and repairing.
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    #3  
    Happened to me once in the 100 same scenario. Never the 300 though.
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       #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    (Username Protected)lip, We had the same issue. We had 2 pre-cooler vane failures at their welds. See SL505-36-0003-32-REV.02-PNEUMATIC BLEED 1(2) FAIL DUE TO BLEED TEMPERATURE SENSOR. I can send photos that WestStar in Grand Junction took. They were great at addressing and repairing.
    Please send pics. We fly home Thursday. I will take a look, if able, to see if we have the same issue,
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    #5  

    Vane weld failures picture

    From WestStar
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    #6  
    FYI...WestStar (Grand Junction) had our problem resolved within a day. Can't speak highly enough of their GJT Facility. Used them 7 years for our CJ3. Now with our 300. Many friends flying, other airframes, Hawkers, Embraers, and Gulfstreams have all been pleased. I know I probably sound like a Salesperson for them...but just appreciate professionalism.
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       #7  
    Bleed failed again on the way home today; twice. BTW 147K head wind coming home from BED to JZI today; ouch!
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       #8  
    So now I am AOG with a failed #2 PRSOV. I have the AOG Constant tech on-site and Embraer has no parts; zero. They have three AOG aircraft waiting on parts and I am number four in-line. This seems to be an on-going problem with Embraer. How can you support a world-wide fleet and not have spare parts on hand?!
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    #9  
    Do you have an FAA LOA to allow you to use the MMEL? If yes, you can still dispatch the aircraft under certain limitations under the MEL. Also, do you have an EEC parts program?
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       #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    From WestStar
    Hey (Username Protected), thanks for the heads up. We checked the precooler and heard a rattle. Pulled it out and I have a broken guide vane. It covers 1/2 of the flow through the cooler. Not sure if this is the root cause or incidental.

    Was your root cause the pre-cooler or the bleed valve?

    Checking now to see if they have precoolers in stock.
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       #11  
    RH Bleed Cooler - Broken weld on one of two guide vanes. Going to check the LH side tomorrow.
    Name:  RH Bleed Cooler 11-22.jpeg
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       #12  
    We replaced the -4 precooler with a -6 unit. Embraer has really beefed up the guide vanes, better welds and reinforcement rods.

    Flew the jet today and did flight idle decents starting at FL450. At this point it appears the BLEED FAIL is fixed by replacing the precooler and not the PRSOV. I have a long flight on Thursday; fingers crossed.
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       #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    We replaced the -4 precooler with a -6 unit. Embraer has really beefed up the guide vanes, better welds and reinforcement rods.

    Flew the jet today and did flight idle decents starting at FL450. At this point it appears the BLEED FAIL is fixed by replacing the precooler and not the PRSOV. I have a long flight on Thursday; fingers crossed.
    Well so much for fixed. I had another BLEED2 Fail on the way to Denver yesterday. We were able to secure a PRSOV and WestStar is going to install tomorrow.
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       #14  
    Hey All,

    My PRSOV saga continues and I hope one of you smart people can provide assistance. The "new" PRSOV only lasted a few flights and I had a BLEED 2 fail again; however, this time the symptoms were entirely different. The BLEED fail happen on landing while taxiing off the runaway. The synoptic page showed the PRSOV with a green circle and a yellow X. On a subsequent flight switching the BLEED 2 from Auto to Off elicited no reaction; prevously, the PRSOV would still turn on/off accordingly.

    The PRSOV was replaced with another new unit. We ran the ground checks and all was fine. I test flew the jet up to 37K feet, switched on/off the BLEED and the system reacted normally. Upon landing I once again got the BLEED 2 fail with the green circle and yellow X.

    Clearly it isn't the PRSOV as I'm on my 3rd unit. This morning I paid to add the Maintenance Manuals to my subscription so I can look at the procedures and wiring diagram myself given three different maintenance providers (and $13K in fees) haven't found the issue.

    Has anyone experienced this type of failure mode?
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    Hey All,

    My PRSOV saga continues and I hope one of you smart people can provide assistance. The "new" PRSOV only lasted a few flights and I had a BLEED 2 fail again; however, this time the symptoms were entirely different. The BLEED fail happen on landing while taxiing off the runaway. The synoptic page showed the PRSOV with a green circle and a yellow X. On a subsequent flight switching the BLEED 2 from Auto to Off elicited no reaction; prevously, the PRSOV would still turn on/off accordingly.

    The PRSOV was replaced with another new unit. We ran the ground checks and all was fine. I test flew the jet up to 37K feet, switched on/off the BLEED and the system reacted normally. Upon landing I once again got the BLEED 2 fail with the green circle and yellow X.

    Clearly it isn't the PRSOV as I'm on my 3rd unit. This morning I paid to add the Maintenance Manuals to my subscription so I can look at the procedures and wiring diagram myself given three different maintenance providers (and $13K in fees) haven't found the issue.

    Has anyone experienced this type of failure mode?
    Have you also changed the ECS valve on the same side yet?
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       #16  
    Back in September I had an ECS 2 fail and the FCSOV #2 was changed. Now I wonder if the two are related.
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    Back in September I had an ECS 2 fail and the FCSOV #2 was changed. Now I wonder if the two are related.
    Yes we eventually replaced both the FSCOV and ECS valve and then no more issues. They are linked
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    Back in September I had an ECS 2 fail and the FCSOV #2 was changed. Now I wonder if the two are related.
    So, both the PRSOV AND the FCSOV have been changed?
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    #19  
    [QUOTE=(Username Protected);59292]So, both the PRSOV AND the FCSOV have been changed?

    Yes on my aircraft both were changed. I meant PRSOV but typed an F in by mistake.
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       #20  
    We installed a 'brand new' PRSOV but were still having the BLEED 2 failure (green circle with yellow x). Spent another ton of money to have maintenance go over all of the wiring harnesses yet again. This would be the 3rd time as, in theory, this was also done by Constant and WestStar during my two previous BLEED AOG events in December. The maintenence tech spent hours on the phone with Embraer checking various items. In the end, we swapped out the Air Management System (AMS) controller for a 'no trouble found' unit (ugh) as it was all that was left in the system. We re-installed the 'repaired' PRSOV that was installed back in December and the system booted up clean and passed the AMS and PRSOV ground checks. The 'brand new' PRSOV would not pass the ground checks, go figure. The weather was too crappy for a post-maintenance flight so I'll try it out again tomorrow..
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       #21  
    So I'm desperate for a solution. Picked up the jet from maintenance today and once again upon landing I got a BLEED 2 Fail. As noted above we've checked wiring, AMS Controller and the PRSOV. The failure happens on transition to landing around 500' so the CAS is suppressed until 30 seconds after WOW. I assume the logic is switching from flight to ground mode and the pressurization system is dumping the cabin when the failure occurs.

    Help!
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    #22  
    What level is it at within Embraer? Is Doug Davidson involved?
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       #23  
    My mechanics are working with a 'level 2' engineer in Brazil. I asked for an 'expert engineer' in Florida today given we've had no sucess in the past two weeks; but was shutdown.

    We continue to try and find the root cause. We thought we nailed it when we found a loose connector (partially threaded) on the long harness to the pnuematic switch panel in the front left cockpit. Unfortunately, it wasn't the cause but probably would have been in the future (I figure this connector was messed with during the 10-year and not reconnected properly). I've spent tens of thousands of dollars in labor and probably another 10K in test flights; thus far; nothing, same failure. The root issue seems to be the PRSOV LVDT position feedback is unstable either because of a bad ground, bad excitation or some other issue. We've literally gone through nearly every cable and connector on the jet, replaced the PRSOV twice, replaced the AMS and swapped the Data Concentrators. Embraer now wants them to remove my pilot seats, cockpit interior, storage cabinets and front side walls so they can access a ground and a bulk head connector. Why the LVDT excitation signal runs from the AMS in the very back all the way through the pressure bulk head and several more breakouts to the cockpit pnuematic panel is beyond me.

    I am becoming quite disolutioned with Embraer, Phenoms and owning a jet in general. I've had to cancel two business trips thus far. We're supposed to go on a big Air Journey trip in a couple days (fully paid for). That trip is in serious jeopardy and the wife is not happy.
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    #24  
    (Username Protected) sorry for that experience, can't wait to hear the final resolution.

    I had a Bleed 2 Over Pressure followed by a Bleed 2 Fail a few weeks back, but that seems to have been resolved by swapping the Bleed 2 valve. Now my CDM is broken and on backorder... but at least the plane flies well just sweaty on the ground!
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    I am becoming quite disolutioned with Embraer, Phenoms and owning a jet in general. I've had to cancel two business trips thus far. We're supposed to go on a big Air Journey trip in a couple days (fully paid for). That trip is in serious jeopardy and the wife is not happy.
    Frustrating. I am currently dealing with a similarly obnoxious pitch trim issue that has resulted in 2 trips to Aerostar, 2 trips to Embraer, and so far $15k in labor charges (not to mention 6 separate part swaps covered by EEC) and I am not still not sure that it's fixed. About to go test fly it again today after replacing everything again. Fingers crossed.
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       #26  
    Well we appear to have the problem resolved. The primary issue was a bad PRSOV. The problem was we received thre bad PRSOVs, one in December and then two in a row. So off we went chasing the white rabbit thinking the PRSOV couldn't be the issue; I mean what are the odds of two bad valves in a row especially when one of them was brand new. So after thousands of dollars of labor we have it fixed. We do suspect the bleed switch panel was a contributing factor as well as a bulkhead pass thru connector that was only partially installed (plugged in but not screwed on); probably was disconnected during the 10Y and not reinstalled correctly.
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    #27  
    Glad to hear you’re finally resolved!
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       #28  
    When it rains..... we had a GDL59 fail on our flight today. The failure is a "white" CAS "GDL FAIL". It doesn't show up on the QRH, POH or AFM. When you look it up in the G1000 NXI book it says GDL59 FAIL = Your GDL59 is failed. Wow that is really helpful. How about at least telling me what the GDL59 actually does. I googled it on landing and it's a flight data recorder. My avionics guy thinks it records CAS CMC etc.

    Edit - The GDL59 controls the WIFI and SATCOM.

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