Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    68 Posts
    Thanked 44 times
    Phenom 100 Owner & Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Feb 2021
       #1  

    Hypothetical No-Flap Takeoff in Phenom 100

    As a purely hypothetical question, would anyone care to venture what a "safe" zero-flap rotate speed would be for the Phenom 100?

    Of course, we all know it's not permitted and there are no performance figures for it, which is why this is a hypothetical. I'm pretty sure the plane is capable of it.

    Here is the scenario:

    KTUS
    Winds calm
    Temp 20 C
    Takeoff Weight 10,316
    Runway 11L (10,996 ft available)
    Flap Fail message just as you move the lever to Flaps 1. It can't be reset and you can't power down or abort the takeoff for whatever reason. We'll just say it's a life or death situation and you must get airborne.

    My guess would be that Vr for zero-flaps would be the same as Vfs (129 kt) but anyone care to venture a guess? (Keep max tire speed limitation in mind).
  2. Username Protected
    Frequent Poster

    Posts
    78 Posts
    Thanked 34 times
    Phenom Pro Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Oct 2020
    #2  
    Hypothetically, I would say it’s very capable and that Vfs would likely be a safe rotate speed. Not sure of any airport/situation here in the US, particularly TUS, that would put you in a life or death situation to have to get off the ground. I’ve been in that sort of situation in another airplane in an African nation. It was a pretty extreme scenario and didn’t involve an aircraft malfunction or inability to set an appropriate takeoff configuration.
  3. Username Protected
    Really Frequent Poster

    Posts
    161 Posts
    Thanked 77 times
    Phenom 300 Owner & Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Oct 2020
    #3  
    Is there a Vmc published for no flaps? Could take that and go 1.3x that to give you a buffer, probably not far away from the Vfs.
  4. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    7 Posts
    Thanked 1 time
    Phenom 300 Owner & Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Dec 2022
    #4  

    Vfs worked

    I know a pilot who had to land in Greenland on a North Atlantic crossing with zero flaps due to a flap failure. Because there was no maintenance in Greenland, he decided to take-off with zero flaps. Vfs worked fine as Vr in the Phenom 100.
  5. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    68 Posts
    Thanked 44 times
    Phenom 100 Owner & Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Feb 2021
       #5  
    I figured as much, and it only makes sense! With a 10,000 ft runway and low temps, it would have been an easy takeoff not a lot different than normal. Instead, I did the "right" thing and went AOG and incurred thousands in expenses and days of headaches that, in another reality, wouldn't have been necessary. Sometimes I think we are flying for the lawyers and some invisible boogeyman, rather than ourselves.
  6. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    2 Posts
    Thanked 1 time
    Phenom 100 Owner & Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Nov 2020
    #6  
    (Username Protected), I believe that it may be possible for Embraer, via the Contact Center, to issue a special authorization for a flaps zero takeoff under special circumstances. They do the calculations for you and provide appropriate information. The intent, of course, is to get the airplane to maintenance. I have heard of at least one situation (in the early days of the Phenom 100) where this was done.

    —(Username Protected)
  7. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    68 Posts
    Thanked 44 times
    Phenom 100 Owner & Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Feb 2021
       #7  
    That's good news, albeit a bit late because I sold my Phenom in November. Thought I was taking advantage of the recent spike in prices - the jury is still out on that one!

Posting Permissions