Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. Username Protected
    Really Frequent Poster

    Posts
    199 Posts
    Thanked 103 times
    Phenom 300 Owner & Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Nov 2020
       #1  

    Lavatory Servicing

    Hi All,

    I need to service my P300 lavatory and was wondering how you all do it in the field. Do you just let the line guys perform the dump, rinse and refill or is there a better method? Looking at the video (thanks for linking them Marcus) it seems like the dump and rinse is relatively simple and idiot proof. The refill is more of a concern. How do you control how much fluid is being pumped back into the tank? I believe someone mentioned that they do not let the line guys perform the refill and they refill the tank from the inside just like you do with the P100; does it work that way?

    PS - For you P100 guys it is much easier to refill the tank from the toilet after you've reinstalled the empty portable tank; less chance of dumping blue juice on the floor!
  2. Username Protected
    Really Frequent Poster

    Posts
    161 Posts
    Thanked 77 times
    Phenom 300 Owner & Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Oct 2020
    #2  
    My 300's bathroom is used sparingly, but I let the line guys handle it while I observe. The first steps are easy. The handle can be very very difficult to pull if it hasn't in awhile and even then can require more effort than you think. It only travels maybe 4-6 inches?

    I have found that most carts are easily capable of throwing the correct amount of fluid in there. I think the book says 1 gal? Don't quote me.

    I know others that like to just using their own mix of stuff. I've heard of people saying just some water with alcohol. I haven't looked into it much. I know some like the alcohol/water option because they can dump it on the ramp (hopefully clean) and not worry about it if they think it will freeze overnight. I'm sure there are lots of options here, but I stick to the blue juice for now.
  3. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    53 Posts
    Thanked 33 times
    Phenom 300 Owner & Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Oct 2020
    #3  
    It takes 4 liter, so 1 gallon works fine. I usually serviced it at my home field where the line personnel was familiar with it. If at an unfamiliar field, I would supervise the operation. I always carried the printed instructions from the manual on how to do it , to give to line guys when away from home.
  4. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    31 Posts
    Thanked 7 times
    Phenom 300 Owner & Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Oct 2020
    #4  
    Ive been using clean flush for years, non -corrosive, works great......dump the lav, rinse with water and then add this directly into the lav inside the cabin.
  5. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    64 Posts
    Thanked 32 times
    Phenom Pro Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined May 2021
    #5  
    Let the line guys do it, but make sure you know how everything works in case you have to show one that's unfamiliar. If you haven't already, observe them doing an external re-fill and watch for any blue juice dripping out the belly (assuming it's a new to you jet). I had a bad valve in my system so a good portion of the refill was just blowing out somewhere else. So in my case, I did pour over fills (myself) until I went in for my annual.

    Back to the line crew, tell them you need a gallon. You'll get around a gallon, it doesn't have to be exact, but too much and it you lose "useable space" in your tank if you know what I mean. The big thing is you don't want it too low or the pump can't circulate well enough to wash the bowl.

    If someone is unfamiliar with the system, make sure that refill cap is back on securely. I've had one pop off during climb out. It's very noisy and you'll need to land and secure it.

    A word on pour overs. I'm not a huge fan of it being your normal procedure. Blue juice is messy and corrosive. If you trip up and dump your gallon bucket out on the floor, you won't just need your carpet cleaned asap, you'll need mechanics ASAP to start tearing stuff apart to track down and clean up any spillage out and under the floor panels.
  6. Username Protected
    Really Frequent Poster

    Posts
    199 Posts
    Thanked 103 times
    Phenom 300 Owner & Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Nov 2020
       #6  
    Hey All,

    So I'm a base Atlantic base cus(Username Protected)er at KJZI and was happy to learn that Atlantic services base cus(Username Protected)er's lavs for free! My favorite line guy showed up with the cart and walked me through the process. He's been doing this awhile and was very knowledgeable on the Phenom system, which according to him is the standard configuration. Apparently the Lear's and older Hawkers have very unique systems.
    (Update - Atlantic is now charging base cus(Username Protected)ers $50 for the lav dump)
  7. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    31 Posts
    Thanked 11 times
    Phenom Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Oct 2020
    #7  
    I NEVER let line service refill and never use blue juice. Lav Chem Clear. Half a small bottle with about a gallon of water. I just pour it from inside or use the melted ice from the cooler.

    Blue Juice should be outlawed. Seen too many rotted bellies from that junk.
  8. Username Protected
    Really Frequent Poster

    Posts
    199 Posts
    Thanked 103 times
    Phenom 300 Owner & Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Nov 2020
       #8  
    So its been a while since we discussed lavs!

    We just came back from a 10-day trip to South America and my lav stinks! I had the lav serviced prior to departure and estimate it was used 8 times by two women over the duration of the trip. On the return home yesterday the lav stunk up the plane. We were in SA so it was quite hot and humid.

    How often to you all service the lav? I can't believe 8 "pees" would sour the lav that fast. What should be my expectation?

    I have reached out to JZI Atlantic to find out what type of "juice" they use. Perhaps there is a better "solution" like the "Lav Chem Clear" mentioned above and I should fill my own.
  9. Username Protected
    Frequent Poster

    Posts
    102 Posts
    Thanked 123 times
    Phenom Instructor/Mentor
    Join Date
    Joined Oct 2020
    #9  
    (Username Protected)-

    Generally speaking, any time the lav is used. If it was only used once/ twice and making a tech stop for fuel only, I may skip it, but really would prefer to if the FBO/ airport can do it quickly.

    Keep in mind that all of the "product" is just sitting in a (very) small tank inside the airplane, and every time the toilet is flushed, you are using an increasing proportion (relative to blue juice) of "product" to wash down the bowl, it's not surprising that if it wasn't serviced for 10 days and 8 uses, it's a bit ripe now.

    To get the stink out I'd service the lav, go flush it a dozen times, and then service it again. Running all the fans on high on a GPU with the door open for a while won't hurt, either.
  10. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    64 Posts
    Thanked 32 times
    Phenom Pro Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined May 2021
    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    How often to you all service the lav? I can't believe 8 "pees" would sour the lav that fast. What should be my expectation?
    At the end of the day, even if it was used even once I'll change it out if I know I'm going to be parked for a while. If i was turning back to base the next morning, I would wait until I got home to have my own guys do it. (I prefer to tip the line crews that take care of me regularly, versus strangers) That being said, if it's hot outside, it's getting changed that night regardless.

    If you sit and let it stew like that, especially in the heat, the smell permeates the plastic and it takes even longer to go away. After a particularly bad trip you might have to flush and rinse it 3 times until it smells clean again.

    Also, at 1-2 cups of piddle per use, do so math... That holding tank is not that big. I've had a 8 dudes on a long trip to a football game fill it up during a single leg. A lav service on the road is a lot cheaper than pulling carpet and panels out to clean up serious interior spill...
  11. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    14 Posts
    Thanked 0 times
    Researching Phenom 300
    Join Date
    Joined Dec 2023
    #11  
    Alrighty, I may be hooked on the P300 and I ain't even seen the workings of the lav yet. Is it possible to use a Double Doodie bag in the lav instead of it going into the 'holding tank'. We have 6 kids and they can fill up a tank pretty quickly. Using a bag and smell eze, which I used on my PC12, I could change those out infinitely until I got to the destination. Just toss and reload. No stress. Is this possible in the lav or is everything complicated. Still not sure why they make lavs so damn complicated.

    We use our lav on practically every trip, so it's a must work item.
  12. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    64 Posts
    Thanked 32 times
    Phenom Pro Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined May 2021
    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    Alrighty, I may be hooked on the P300 and I ain't even seen the workings of the lav yet. Is it possible to use a Double Doodie bag in the lav instead of it going into the 'holding tank'.
    I really don't think that will ever be necessary. Especially since you'll rarely go past a 4hr leg in the Phenom.

    You also won't get that big bag in and out very easily. There's a good chance you'll hook up on the submersed pump setup and damage it or your bag. The garbage disposal style rubber flapper is biased for entry, not exit. Which you'll find out if you ever need to unclog your pump pickup. :(

    If you're concerned about maxing it out, do a pour-over of blue juice to make sure it's not over a gallon and maybe just a few ounces under. I had an out and back with 10 dudes going to/from a football game. That was the ONLY time I've ever seen my holding tank get close to the top. (Lots of beer was involved)
  13. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    14 Posts
    Thanked 0 times
    Researching Phenom 300
    Join Date
    Joined Dec 2023
    #13  
    @(Username Protected), many thanks. Have that current issue on the CJ3 that we are leasing too.
  14. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    64 Posts
    Thanked 32 times
    Phenom Pro Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined May 2021
    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    @(Username Protected), many thanks. Have that current issue on the CJ3 that we are leasing too.
    I operate a CJ3 as well, and it has a very small holding compared to the Phenom 300. Being externally serviced, it has a much larger capacity. (Although don't ask me what that is)
  15. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    16 Posts
    Thanked 18 times
    Phenom 100 Owner & Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Dec 2020
    #15  
    Is there a video or instructions to show the line guys for lavatory servicing on the Phenom 100?

    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    Hi All,

    I need to service my P300 lavatory and was wondering how you all do it in the field. Do you just let the line guys perform the dump, rinse and refill or is there a better method? Looking at the video (thanks for linking them Marcus) it seems like the dump and rinse is relatively simple and idiot proof. The refill is more of a concern. How do you control how much fluid is being pumped back into the tank? I believe someone mentioned that they do not let the line guys perform the refill and they refill the tank from the inside just like you do with the P100; does it work that way?

    PS - For you P100 guys it is much easier to refill the tank from the toilet after you've reinstalled the empty portable tank; less chance of dumping blue juice on the floor!
  16. Username Protected
    Really Frequent Poster

    Posts
    199 Posts
    Thanked 103 times
    Phenom 300 Owner & Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Nov 2020
       #16  
    I don't think I'd have a line guy service the P100 lav. That isn't something they would be trained to do. After you have done it a few times it isn't too difficult (ref the POH); althought it does require contortions to seat the tank and mate the electrical connector. As noted above, I recommend refilling the tank after you reinstalled it in the aircraft.
  17. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    5 Posts
    Thanked 1 time
    Phenom 100 Owner & Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Nov 2023
    #17  
    So how exactly do you service a P100 lav? There is a portable tank it sounds like. Where do you take it to empty it out?
  18. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    33 Posts
    Thanked 23 times
    Phenom Pro Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Dec 2021
    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by (Username Protected) View Post
    So how exactly do you service a P100 lav? There is a portable tank it sounds like. Where do you take it to empty it out?
    Attached is the excerpt from the POH.
    Attachments Attachments
  19. Username Protected
    Frequent Poster

    Posts
    102 Posts
    Thanked 123 times
    Phenom Instructor/Mentor
    Join Date
    Joined Oct 2020
    #19  
    (Username Protected)-

    To answer the question that I think you are asking- once you've removed the tray (tank), you give it to the FBO to service. They can rinse it with clean fluid and empty it out. I did it once beside line service for the sake of edification and it is not something you want to do! They can give you the tray back with fluid in/ without.

    Each has its risks- spilling fluid from the tray as you carry it down the aisle, vs. carrying a container of blue juice down the aisle to fill the tank from above (the bowl). The tray has a sliding valve to seal off the top, but you still need to be very careful and carry it perfectly horizontally.
  20. Username Protected
    Member

    Posts
    5 Posts
    Thanked 1 time
    Phenom 100 Owner & Pilot
    Join Date
    Joined Nov 2023
    #20  
    Seems like you also have the risk of carrying the full waste tank down the aisle.

Posting Permissions