[Username Protected]

As my P300 just came out of the 10Y major maintenance I am paying very close attention to the various systems. A couple days ago I had to turn on Wing Stabs and was quite surprised to physically feel the aircraft slow and my climb rate disappear. When flying the P100 I often had to choose between anti-ice or climbing but I thought this was not an issue with the P300.

For the record, I was climbing through FL270 at 225/0.6 with the engine heat already on, the aircraft weighed 17K lbs and the OAT was +15 ISA. I don't recall my climb rate but believe it was ~1500-2000 fpm. When I turned on the Wing Stabs the aircraft stopped climbing.

Is this normal or are my Wing Stabs consuming too much bleed air? Perhaps a pressure regulator or other restrictor is damaged or missing.

[Username Protected]

A couple days ago I had to turn on Wing Stabs and was quite surprised to physically feel the aircraft slow and my climb rate disappear.

That part is normal, you definitely feel the deceleration when you turn the wingstabs anti-ice on. ISA+15 AT 225 kts will be a challenge with the wingstab on. It should start climbing eventually, but will take a lot longer. Look at the below table from the POH: A climb to FL270 at ISA+15 should take 12 minutes wingstab off; wingstab on will take 80% longer (vs only a 14% penalty at ISA-10)!

[Username Protected]

I would say I experienced the exact same performance in July out of CO going through the edge of a cell. I haven't looked to see what would be suggested to do in that instance of barely climbing or asking to level out speed up to get out of the condition then continue the climb?

[Username Protected]

Funny i just got done flying with (Username Protected), and we had this exact same scenario this morning, You could really feel the deceleration, he suggested if you have a ice detector wait until the ice detector signals ice, then throw it on

[Username Protected]

(Username Protected):
I agree with all of the posts above - sounds like your airplane is performing normally.
Also - as soon as you get to 30K - the wing stab is going to turn itself off.
I think you should be happy that you have the ability with the flip of one switch to push all that hot air out to the wings and stab.
(Username Protected)

[Username Protected]

As my P300 just came out of the 10Y major maintenance I am paying very close attention to the various systems. A couple days ago I had to turn on Wing Stabs and was quite surprised to physically feel the aircraft slow and my climb rate disappear. When flying the P100 I often had to choose between anti-ice or climbing but I thought this was not an issue with the P300.

For the record, I was climbing through FL270 at 225/0.6 with the engine heat already on, the aircraft weighed 17K lbs and the OAT was +15 ISA. I don't recall my climb rate but believe it was ~1500-2000 fpm. When I turned on the Wing Stabs the aircraft stopped climbing.

Is this normal or are my Wing Stabs consuming too much bleed air? Perhaps a pressure regulator or other restrictor is damaged or missing.

Same experience here and yes totally normal in summer time

[Username Protected]

That's quite normal. If you think it's going to happen, shallow out your climb and let the plane accelerate a bit to prepare prior. I would rather enter icing conditions with a little extra energy and stay ahead of things. With a full load, I've barely managed 400-500fpm on a hot day up there. ATC understands, just let them know you're not climbing well.

*** As far as waiting for the ice detector goes, it's just one indicator... I've had it trigger with no accumulation at all and NOT detect when I had rime ice already building... Don't ignore your eyes and your feels while waiting for something to tell you to flip a switch...

[Username Protected]

Does the gui(Username Protected)ce on when you are putting heats on differ from the book if you have an ice detector? I would assume the answer is no and between 5-10 SAT you have engine heats on, and below 5 its all on in visible moisture.

[Username Protected]

No. I'm simply commenting on someone saying to wait for the ice detector. I just don't want people using that as their only trigger to turn on the wing stabs.

[Username Protected]

That part is normal, you definitely feel the deceleration when you turn the wingstabs anti-ice on. ISA+15 AT 225 kts will be a challenge with the wingstab on. It should start climbing eventually, but will take a lot longer. Look at the below table from the POH: A climb to FL270 at ISA+15 should take 12 minutes wingstab off; wingstab on will take 80% longer (vs only a 14% penalty at ISA-10)!

Does anyone know if the ice detector becomes inactive once heats are turned on? I recall being in some ice conditions (not heavy) and never seeing the ice detector alert. I always turn on the applicable anti ice items based on temperature and visible moisture and never wait for a cas….

[Username Protected]

I’ve been flying the P100 for about 12 years now and a little familiar with the loss of performance in light to moderate icing conditions.
A few years ago a very sharp and knowledgeable TCE was giving me the yearly check ride at CAE.
We finished the ride about :45 early. He asked if l would like to see what would happen if we lost an engine coming out of Aspen with all the HEAT ON?
Regardless of my previous 40 years of experience flying heavy jets with “hot wings,” their sophisticated anti icing systems and all the power we needed, l crashed into the mountains like a navies pilot. The “mighty” Phenom simply stopped climbing.
This eye opening experience only confirmed my prior belief that I should never fly this aircraft in that kind of Wx out of a high altitude airport. Or for that matter, at very high cruising levels!
Cautiously yours,
(Username Protected)

[Username Protected]

Does anyone know if the ice detector becomes inactive once heats are turned on?

I don't think so. Does it pass the pre-flight check? I had my Ice Detector go bad and had is swapped.

[Username Protected]

Yes it always passes the preflight check

[Username Protected]

(Username Protected) is throwing me under the bus! Haha! The ice detector is never meant to take the place of the limitations. Always use your eyes and the AFM to determine if you should turn on the wingstab. With that being said we are pilots and if you don’t see any accumulation, you’re not climbing and you are already close to the edge of the envelope (30k’) then turn them off and get that performance back. I’m ok with that. Love you (Username Protected).