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Like many of you, we've had problems with the Gill batteries. One of our subsidiaries services all the major brands of aircraft batteries and they agree that Concord is superior to Gill in reliability and seeing more operators switching to Concord. When we owned the Citation, it was recommended to disconnect the battery after flight This is not a recommendation from Embraer. If you are hangaring your a/c like we are at a major facility, it's not practical to hook up a trickle charger but disconnecting would be easy enough. Has anyone inquired as to why Embraer doesn't make the same recommendation. Has anyone been able to replace Gill with Concord under the EEC program?

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What problems are you having? They lose their charge after a few days?

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The batteries were less than a year old. When we powered down, the batteries lost their charge to below 24v in less than 30 seconds. We did multiple cap tests and maintenance tried to repair the batteries without success. One concern I have is when we did the emergency power check, it passed, but the batteries clearly weren't able to support emergency power.

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I did some analysis on battery replacement in the logbooks of a 2012 plane I'm in the process of purchasing.
The plane is based in Germany and the records are pretty meticulous - including all of the battery check forms. It was on EEC Enh and always got Gill batteries.
The average was every 154 hours & 187 cycles for #1 and 164 hours and 198 cycles for #2, however there were several instances where they needed to be changed after only 40-50 cycles!

I don't know if these intervals are typical (either within Phenoms or among other jets) but if anyone has data I'd be interested to see it.
My TBM had to have the Concorde battery replaced after 380 hrs / 223 cycles. I disconnected the battery after every flight (made easy as there is a single breaker that disconnects the hot bus) and always did battery starts.

Edit: I looked up the Gill specs... they claim it has a 18month / 1800 hour inspection interval! What a joke - not a single battery made it that long on this plane. In fact, every one would have been replaced under the 12-month full warranty from what I can see (if not for EEC). Does anyone have experience with Warranty replacement for Gill batteries?

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(Username Protected), those are some good data points. Hopefully, others will have some numbers to compare.

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It may be a result of the airplane electrics (hot bus drain) and not the batteries...

I did some analysis on battery replacement in the logbooks of a 2012 plane I'm in the process of purchasing.
The plane is based in Germany and the records are pretty meticulous - including all of the battery check forms. It was on EEC Enh and always got Gill batteries.
The average was every 154 hours & 187 cycles for #1 and 164 hours and 198 cycles for #2, however there were several instances where they needed to be changed after only 40-50 cycles!

I don't know if these intervals are typical (either within Phenoms or among other jets) but if anyone has data I'd be interested to see it.
My TBM had to have the Concorde battery replaced after 380 hrs / 223 cycles. I disconnected the battery after every flight (made easy as there is a single breaker that disconnects the hot bus) and always did battery starts.

Edit: I looked up the Gill specs... they claim it has a 18month / 1800 hour inspection interval! What a joke - not a single battery made it that long on this plane. In fact, every one would have been replaced under the 12-month full warranty from what I can see (if not for EEC). Does anyone have experience with Warranty replacement for Gill batteries?

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The Gill batteries are junk! They were cheap and that is why Embraer puts them into new AC. Our Phenom 300 just had to replace another Gill battery with 70 hours on it and less than a year. Gill would not send replacement battery until we did 2 cap checks either. Then they replaced it pro rata! At annual in June 2021 we are doing SB for Concord batteries. Executive Airshare has done the mod on all their birds too. The Gill is junk. We were in Nassau after a 2.5 hour flight, powered up and Gill battery showed 23.7 volts. Junk. Had to get GPU to get out of there. My advise is to change them with Concord or you could get stuck somewhere!

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Very possible. I'm trying to get an answer from EMB as to why we aren't encouraged to disconnect the batteries.

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Textron let customers decide, maybe we can encourage EMB to do the same.

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I talked with a Phenom 300 pilot for a company and they will almost always only have bat 1 on to power on the systems and once they are ready for start they will flip on bat 2 to have it completely fresh. All the battery companies will tell you the best thing for your batteries is to use it for start because that's working the battery.

I have started using this method and it is paying off and having much better starting voltages, but I agree the Gill batteries are a headache. My previous 100, the owners got the Concorde's, but I am on EEC so Gill for me.

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Another trick suggested by a shop is to disconnect the probe heat before turning on the engine, since they are a significant drain (~60 Amps according to them).

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Does the SB apply for the 100? I would like to do it and change to Concorde. Does EEC cover Concordes after the SB? Thanks!

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The conversion to Concord for the Phenom 100 is available. It’s an STC that Concord charges a few hundred dollars for on top of the cost of the battery. My understanding is the use of the batteries for starts is good for NiCads but not lead acids.

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Thanks for the info (Username Protected)...are the Concordes Nicad? Thought both brands were lead acid? BTW, I really love my 100 and I am so glad I did not get a Citation.

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I am in the middle of Gill battery problem too. My previous batteries were fine. Never a problem with a battery start. In October, I got two new Gill batteries under EEC. These batteries held a charge above 24 for exactly one flight. After disconnecting from power(non start startpac) they drop to 23.6 in less than a minute.

I had them checked and nothing could be done. Charging up didn’t help. Service center replacing as the warranty is 90 days. No batteries were available when first called.

I believe you can pay the up charge for the Concorde batteries but they will NOT be covered by EEC in the future. I’d pay the up charge once if EEC covered after that. Anyone understand differently?

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They are both lead acid. Plug and play even though and STC is required. Maybe there is a way for Concord battery to make the STC available to all phenompilots.org members.

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I talked with a Phenom 300 pilot for a company and they will almost always only have bat 1 on to power on the systems and once they are ready for start they will flip on bat 2...

This is how we do battery starts as well. Batt 1 on for a couple of minutes to do the checklist up to closing the door and get clearance prior to start, turn on #2 to start the right engine, then wait two minutes before starting the left. It gives the battery a little time to recover and finish doing the rest of the flight plan and avionics setup during that time.

I’ve been managing this particular Phenom for almost 2 years and the batteries we just changed in Jan were the first set that have made cap checks and lasted the full 2 years. I really believe the difference is the fact that we battery start a little more often and also how we perform battery starts. Even lead acid batteries need a good strain and recharge occassionally for them to give good life.

We get moved around between 3 hangars often, so trickle chargers are unfortunately not an option. The jet does get hooked to a GPU almost weekly if we don’t fly and I believe that helps as well. Like the rest of you, I’d wholeheartedly welcome Concordes becoming a regular option through EEC as my experience with Gills on other aircraft hasn’t been positive either.

Just a heads up if you’re coming up on battery replacement- check for availability and order early. I put in the EEC request over a month prior to needing them and they finally had to pull them from the European supply system to get them. I couldn’t even order them myself from Aircraft Spruce, direct from Gill, or any other aircraft parts source.

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Has anyone been able to get an answer from Embraer why they don't recommend disconnecting the batteries after shutdown as is recommended by Textron?

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I haven't gotten an answer on that. Speaking to an earlier comment, Gill currently has supply chain issues and Embraer is having difficulties getting batteries. My #1 battery just had a 53% cap check, so it failed miserably. It is under warranty still, but we are investigating what it might take to switch to Concorde. I'm unsure if the STC would allow me to only change one of the batteries.

I was told that a 300 with Concorde batteries that has been on a trickle chargers is now going on 5 years of passing cap checks. They do not require an automatic change out at 2 years.

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I haven't gotten an answer on that. Speaking to an earlier comment, Gill currently has supply chain issues and Embraer is having difficulties getting batteries. My #1 battery just had a 53% cap check, so it failed miserably. It is under warranty still, but we are investigating what it might take to switch to Concorde. I'm unsure if the STC would allow me to only change one of the batteries.

I was told that a 300 with Concorde batteries that has been on a trickle chargers is now going on 5 years of passing cap checks. They do not require an automatic change out at 2 years.

I had a good conversation the other day with my new field service rep. Both main battery and emergency light battery reliability are top issues in the Phenom fleet. They’re hoping to get a new supplier for the emer light batteries in the near future and have also been doing analysis on Concorde batteries in an effort to get them added to EEC. That way both warranty and parts program customers will have access to get them. The fact that they both more reliable and don’t have to be outright disposed of after 2 years is a huge plus even if you have to buy an STC and pay a little more for the batteries.

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Has anyone been able to get an answer from Embraer why they don't recommend disconnecting the batteries after shutdown as is recommended by Textron?

I'm pretty sure they do -- Phenom 300 POH, Rev 17, Section 5-15, Page 2, "NORMAL PARKING PROCEDURE (0 TO 14 DAYS)"

Main Batteries .................................. DISCONNECT AS REQUIRED
Disconnecting main batteries from the electrical bus is recommended to prevent battery from discharging. In case of parking in extremely adverse weather conditions, remove the main batteries. Refer to AMM TASK 24-36-01.

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I'll report back in the coming days. My #1 battery only had 53% on the check. Plane is AOG now, and looks like Embraer located a battery in Singapore. Last I checked, EEC covers standard shipping which is defined as typically overnight unless the goods are deemed hazardous for the type of transportation.

I was initially told I would be responsible for shipping at $1,200-$1,500.

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Oof. We just ordered a replacement Gill battery from Aircraft Spruce for our 100. EEC said 60 days, so I decided to just get a battery in and I'll figure out reimbursement later.

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My Phenom failed the Cap Checks with Gills, and I am looking for a 34Ah battery... if anyone has one, even if used, please let me know. Thank you!!

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(Username Protected)- I brought up to our service rep the crazy dates EEC sometimes gives you when you place a parts order. He said take note of what it says, but don’t necessarily believe that it will take that long. Especially if you’re placing an order for an AOG or near future needed date. Order and then stay on SKJ to come up with a plan to provide. Definitely reach out to your rep to get them involved because what good is a parts program if it’s a continual pain to get anything out of it. We’ve had several parts over the last 6 months that showed not available for 2-3 months, but they’ll manage to get them when you need. They’ve dipped into production and European parts stock for our jet twice since September. Batteries were one of them.

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I operate a 100.....My Gills batteries are junk......was told May for new ones, I bought the STC for the Concord batteries , batteries are in stock......its basically a plug and play, with some paperwork.....no modifications needed for the terminals or vent lines.

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Replaced the Gills 4 months ago with the Concords with a battery tender.
The Plane has flown maybe 20 hours. I was impressed when I Energized the aircraft after sitting a week in PBI off the tender and both showed 25.1 volts.
Very happy with the switch to Concords.

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How do you hook up the tender? Is that a separate STC for the wiring, or just something your shop worked in?

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How do you hook up the tender? Is that a separate STC for the wiring, or just something your shop worked in?

here is what was installed...

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It appears the batteries on my 100 were replaced in November, and I can't run the avionics for more than about 2 minutes before they both dip below 24V. To compensate, I've been starting up the avionics on battery 1 and saving battery 2 for the engine start. I flip # 2 on, start the right engine and use the generator to power my avionics while I enter a flight plan, v-speeds etc. There is NO way these batteries would power emergency systems for 45 minutes. EEC really needs to provide the STC to every 100 owner and switch over ASAP, or they are going to be shelling out money right and left for Gill batteries.